The Auswine Forum

Nice one Ozzie.

How did the group find Ca' del Baio? I have found it is very popular and well received blind- suggesting they are clever and gentle modernists.

Do you have a specific Piedmont wine group?

JamieBahrain wrote:Nice one Ozzie.

How did the group find Ca' del Baio? I have found it is very popular and well received blind- suggesting they are clever and gentle modernists.

Do you have a specific Piedmont wine group?

The group focuses solely on Italian wines, with a different theme each time. Barolo vs. Barbaresco just happened to be theme this time. We taste everything blind.

Ca' del Baio is a producer I wasn't familiar with, but it's now on my radar. It was very well received by the group. Tasted blind, it was suggested it might have been a Produttori Asili, which is high praise indeed.

There are labels you expect to be great and others where you think a bit less of them. The 2010 Benevelli Piero Barolo Ravera was a bit of a shock to the group when it was revealed. It punched way above its weight, or perhaps just our preconceived ideas of this producer.

Ozzie W wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:Nice one Ozzie.

How did the group find Ca' del Baio? I have found it is very popular and well received blind- suggesting they are clever and gentle modernists.

Do you have a specific Piedmont wine group?

The group focuses solely on Italian wines, with a different theme each time. Barolo vs. Barbaresco just happened to be theme this time. We taste everything blind.

Ca' del Baio is a producer I wasn't familiar with, but it's now on my radar. It was very well received by the group. Tasted blind, it was suggested it might have been a Produttori Asili, which is high praise indeed.

There are labels you expect to be great and others where you think a bit less of them. The 2010 Benevelli Piero Barolo Ravera was a bit of a shock to the group when it was revealed. It punched way above its weight, or perhaps just our preconceived ideas of this producer.

In my view wines like Ca' del Baio tend to show well on comparative tastings because they use a lot more oak and so present as different to other more traditionally produced Barbaresco's/Barolo's, particularly to tired palates towards the end of a tasting. They don't use oak to the gross (AKA Marengo and Clerico) spectrum, but do use a very liberal amount of oak such that they are more sweet, expressive and round than other Barbarescos on a blind tasting. Not sure, in that regard, that you would easily confuse them with a Produttori Barbaresco cru.

I've had the Ca' del Baio Asili 2012 and 2013 and they were nice wines, delicious even, but for me the main criticism is that the quality of the fruit is hidden under layers of oak which is a shame.

LawrenceM wrote:In my view wines like Ca' del Baio tend to show well on comparative tastings because they use a lot more oak and so present as different to other more traditionally produced Barbaresco's/Barolo's, particularly to tired palates towards the end of a tasting. They don't use oak to the gross (AKA Marengo and Clerico) spectrum, but do use a very liberal amount of oak such that they are more sweet, expressive and round than other Barbarescos on a blind tasting. Not sure, in that regard, that you would easily confuse them with a Produttori Barbaresco cru.

I've had the Ca' del Baio Asili 2012 and 2013 and they were nice wines, delicious even, but for me the main criticism is that the quality of the fruit is hidden under layers of oak which is a shame.

Too much oak is one of my pet peeves. I much rather prefer traditionalist Barolo/Barbaresco to the modernist style, so I'm a bit perplexed why I don't recall such an oak regime in this wine. Perhaps a result of not taking formal notes during the tasting and also revisiting the previous and following wines which I still had in my other glasses.

Good points Lawrence.

In my Asili tasting, we had double magnum of Giacosa riserva which was wine of the night blind. Ca del Baio was served numbers 1 to 3. 2010 showing a gently oaked and integrated expression of Barbaresco and was my second wine of the night. 2009 and 2011 from warm vintages did not show bumbling oak.

The wrestle between modernist and traditionalist is 20 years past in my view. Far more complex than two camps these days and I'd suggest Cai del Baio is a gentle and evolving modernist.

Ozzie W wrote:

LawrenceM wrote:In my view wines like Ca' del Baio tend to show well on comparative tastings because they use a lot more oak and so present as different to other more traditionally produced Barbaresco's/Barolo's, particularly to tired palates towards the end of a tasting. They don't use oak to the gross (AKA Marengo and Clerico) spectrum, but do use a very liberal amount of oak such that they are more sweet, expressive and round than other Barbarescos on a blind tasting. Not sure, in that regard, that you would easily confuse them with a Produttori Barbaresco cru.

I've had the Ca' del Baio Asili 2012 and 2013 and they were nice wines, delicious even, but for me the main criticism is that the quality of the fruit is hidden under layers of oak which is a shame.

Too much oak is one of my pet peeves. I much rather prefer traditionalist Barolo/Barbaresco to the modernist style, so I'm a bit perplexed why I don't recall such an oak regime in this wine. Perhaps a result of not taking formal notes during the tasting and also revisiting the previous and following wines which I still had in my other glasses.

I visited the Ca' del Baio winery 3 years ago and across their range, they had a variety of oak regimes. At least one of their bottlings only saw traditional Botti, though I do not recall which one.

Ozzie W wrote:Some great wines at at Barolo vs. Barbaresco themed function last night at one of my wine groups. No formal notes taken. Every single wine was a joy to drink. All tasted blind.

1999 Fontanafredda Barolo Vigna La Rosa
2013 Ca' del Baio Barbaresco Asili
2010 Ceretto Barolo
2010 Benevelli Piero Barolo Ravera
2007 Bruno Giacosa Barolo Le Rocche del Falletto di Serralunga d'Alba
2004 Gaja Barbaresco
2013 Roagna Barbaresco Vecchie Viti Pajé
2010 Barale Fratelli Serraboella Barbaresco
2015 Cavallotto Barolo Bricco Boschis

Lovely line up, any recollections on the Roagna in particular?

winetastic wrote:

Ozzie W wrote:Some great wines at at Barolo vs. Barbaresco themed function last night at one of my wine groups. No formal notes taken. Every single wine was a joy to drink. All tasted blind.

1999 Fontanafredda Barolo Vigna La Rosa
2013 Ca' del Baio Barbaresco Asili
2010 Ceretto Barolo
2010 Benevelli Piero Barolo Ravera
2007 Bruno Giacosa Barolo Le Rocche del Falletto di Serralunga d'Alba
2004 Gaja Barbaresco
2013 Roagna Barbaresco Vecchie Viti Pajé
2010 Barale Fratelli Serraboella Barbaresco
2015 Cavallotto Barolo Bricco Boschis

Lovely line up, any recollections on the Roagna in particular?

I remember it being very tannic (which doesn't bother me because I love tannins), yet the lovely fruit shone through. Already a sheer delight to drink, but destined to be awesome in 10 years time.

I drink a lot of Roagna. It's probably the Barbaresco requiring some of the longest sleeps!

Thanks Ozzie/Jamie.

That feeling when you pull out a 2008 Marcarini Barolo Brunate to slow-ox before tonight, then look at the bottle and realise it is a 1998. Wonderful surprise.

Schiavenza Bricco Cerretta Barolo 2008- I bought this with their Prapo though they must have delivered 2 x Cerretta. I opened both Cerrettas by mistake; thinking I had a pleasant upcoming horizontal experience . Not happy ! So in recovery of my disappointment I popped and poured one bottle and heavily decanted the other.

Aeration drew ever-appealing red fruits and florals whereas straight from the bottle saw a darker, heavily tarred Barolo, drinking more like a 2007!

Combining the bottles, I came up with a long and traditional wine, enjoying the textural reflection of the high calcium clays of Serralunga. As the wine was silky throughout, gentle iron-ferrous minerality and a calcareous austerity on the back palate, prior silty dry tannins. There's classic terroir in the wine's goudron like dark concentration, emerging red fruits, chopped mint and twigs adding complexity.

91pts

The two Principianos I opened a week ago and drank over the nights. Not great vintages 2012 for the regular Barolo and 2014 for the nebbiolo. Aeration was kind for the Barolo, aromatically expressive with red raspberries and fresh roses, riper violets too. Beautifully framed eventually, palate is fruit expressive and tannins appropriately dusty. 90pts. The nebbiolo was simple though built good concentration. 86pts






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Message for Jamie,
can you recommend any wine shops on Milan? Will be there in July and am looking for older vintages so need a place that is reliable/trustworthy!

TIA
Brodie

Sorry Brodie, I can't help you. I've never bought in Milano. Actually, I've found pricing Australian-like.

JamieBahrain wrote:Sorry Brodie, I can't help you. I've never bought in Milano. Actually, I've found pricing Australian-like.

Bugger but thnx anyway

Marcarini Barolo Brunate 1998
Swiftly scrawled note, slow-ox all day then 1 hour in a decanter, right in its peak drinking window, tannins are nicely integrated, lovely aroma of dried rose, pine and red + dark berries. The palate is nicely balanced, length decent, persistence good. What remains of the tannins are almost zesty and have just enough grip to let you know this was a wine of great power in its youth.

Really enjoyable.

brodie wrote:Message for Jamie,
can you recommend any wine shops on Milan? Will be there in July and am looking for older vintages so need a place that is reliable/trustworthy!

TIA
Brodie

Hi Brodie
I can't comment on bricks and mortar shops, except to say Peck has the 'best of the best' (sic.) and is remarkably dull for it. However I have used the online shop CallMeWine (who might have a physical shop as well, but I've never checked). Prices and range very good, and ordering remotely they were excellent, but for whatever reason they stopped shipping outside of Italy. Well worth investigating, though they weren't huge on older vintages.
Regards
Ian

Interesting and predicted dilemma emerging. 2015 and 2016 is a little bit of a frenzy and discounted wines are emerging from 2012 and 2014.

Now from blind tastings, I know great Barolo and Barbaresco, can easily outperform the wines of the lauded vintages. So these discounted riservas are providing turbulence with my 2015 and 2016 buying strategies.

Dinner Saturday night-

Bruno Rocca Barbaresco Rabajà 1989 en magnum- Second exposure to this wine in magnum and this bottle underwhelming. Beautiful aromatically with lifted cherry like notes and classic tertiary nebbiolo truffle and undergrowth. Great length and at ease structurally; there was just something flawed on the palate.

NR

Oddero Barolo 1998 en magnum-Popped and poured which didn't help a lack of expression. Dark and unyielding, seamless though unexpressive. Overall an elemental Barolo for which a little more time opr aeration will help.

88pts


Michele Chiarlo Barbaresco Asili- Spicy - dark Asili fruit rather distinct on a bed of modernity. Hard edged and over both bottles the wine never really settled leaving me certain a modest performance from Chiarlo !

89pts

Ragged effort from nebbiolo and wine of the night a magnum of Tassie pinot- 2001 Providence Miguet Reserve.






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OK I was pretty peeved off with my Rocca magnum so I cracked two regular bottles of Rabajà


Bruno Rocca Barbaresco Rabajà 2009- There's the limitations of the vintage here and despite Angelo Gaja stating nobody can complain about global warning in Barbaresco, very warm vintages lose the beguiling red and black fruit complexity, often leaving simple cacoo/tar like expressions.

This too, is dark fruited though, not without considerable interest- tar and roasted meats, a mix of dried stone fruits prior a masterful and lavish textural experience. Granted modern, it's beautiful drinking with its perfect layer and spread of dark fruits. Long and grainy tannins evidence of the wood. A few more years in the cellar won't hurt!

One caveat here, you must serve near the correct temperature to avoid heat spiking.

91pts


Bruno Rocca Barbaresco Rabajà 2004- Very international and modern aromatically with blue florals, sticky-ripe plum/cherry and integrated oak notes. Impressive to superb texturally, with layered plum/cherry fruit sitting upfront, with complexity emerging toward the back palate with balsamic/ earth notes and light pencil lead before a very long finish in the grainy tannin style.

I've another bottle I'm comfortable to bury in the cellar for a decade +

94pts


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2012 Luigi Baudana Barolo Baudana

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Grapes from Serralunga. Sold to G.D. Vajra in 2009. 14.5% ABV.

I've never had this producer before, but I had high expectations based on what I've read. Unfortunately, those expectations were not met.

Tar, leather, earth, rosemary, cherry, oak, sweet vanilla, oak, more sweet vanilla, more oak. Good grippy tannins. Sweet vanilla oak finish. Try again on day 2. Even more oak. Not sure if I got a bad bottle or whatnot (doesn't smell of TCA), but this ain't my cup of tea.

Part of a recent local tasting.
None decanted but corks pulled 4-6 hours in advance.
[*]2013 Roagna Langhe Rosso - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Langhe DOC (09/05/2019)
Very pale; smoky, touch of tar, typicité, complex; highly structured, grippy tannins, marked acidity, unforgiving finish. Leave alone for 3+ years. (90 pts.)
[*]2013 Pio Cesare Barbaresco - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barbaresco (09/05/2019)
Quite deep; flashy, moderne, lots of ripe fruit, latent power; carries through onto palate; rawness to finish. Very long. (88 pts.)
[*]2013 L. A. Cetto Nebbiolo - Mexico, Baja California, Valle de Guadalupe (09/05/2019)
Dark; lumpen, clumsy saturated fruit, oaked; fulsome palate, core of ripe tannins, a certain refinement; exuberant, thick finish. (85 pts.)[/list]
Posted from [url=https://www.cellartracker.com/]CellarTracker[/url]
[*]2015 Luke Lambert Nebbiolo - Australia, Victoria, Port Phillip, Yarra Valley (09/05/2019)
Pale ruby; tar & roses, riveting; lacy, refreshing acidity, softly-softly fruit, fresh feel & balanced; extended finish. (93 pts.)
[*]2011 Ciabot Berton Barolo Roggeri - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (09/05/2019)
Pale ruby; expressive, polished nose, cherried fruit intermingles with dried fruit - dates; haughty, subtle, elegant; silky, generous & extended finish. (92 pts.)
[*]2011 Giuseppe E Figlio Mascarello Barolo Monprivato - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (09/05/2019)
Very pale; restrained, ephemeral, fragrant, whiff of sandalwood; supple of tannins, 'feminine'; lovely follow through on a lingering finish. Needs time. More likely to come. (91 pts.)

A couple of weeks later.

• 2012 Alessandro e Gian Natale Fantino Barolo Bussia Cascina Dardi - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (27/05/2019)
  Lovely garnet out to rim; clean red fruit on nose, dried herbs, whiff of rosé petals maybe even a touch of hot tar; ‘sweet’ red fruits, tannic core, refreshing acidity, suitably structured; splendid flourish on an extended finish.
  (Corked pull 8 hours before, a decant would’ve have been better.). (93 pts.)

recent bottles

2001 Prunotto Barbaresco: pale red, lovely mature bottle, fully ready to go. Gentle tannins and nice florals. Not terribly complex or deep but just delicious to enjoy right now.

2003 Sandrone La Vigne: I think this is ready to enjoy now. A tannins a little bit rough on opening, but with food they melted away and revealed glrious ripe ref cheery fruit. no surmaturite and no heat on finish. Fresh tasting and really drinking well.

Brodie

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I asked a number of foodies/ sommeliers how best to pair with Sichuan food and was given some pretty complex solutions !

Fortune favours the brave ! Who would have thought? Anyways, a mature PdB 2008 with its warm red and black fruits sat beautifully all night, with the green heat of the many Sichuan dishes firmly beating back, the unresloved tannins of the Barbaresco. Not a punt I'd take with high end Piedmont but a lot of fun all the same.

Caveat being the food ingredients were natural and the cooking homestyle. Certainly wouldn't favour this pairing with the roughness of the local Chengdu hot pot.

Ozzie W wrote:2012 Luigi Baudana Barolo Baudana

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Grapes from Serralunga. Sold to G.D. Vajra in 2009. 14.5% ABV.

I've never had this producer before, but I had high expectations based on what I've read. Unfortunately, those expectations were not met.

Tar, leather, earth, rosemary, cherry, oak, sweet vanilla, oak, more sweet vanilla, more oak. Good grippy tannins. Sweet vanilla oak finish. Try again on day 2. Even more oak. Not sure if I got a bad bottle or whatnot (doesn't smell of TCA), but this ain't my cup of tea.

Bizarre Ozzie.

I get this on occasion with traditional producers. Perhaps its the oak- new additions or aggressively shaved? Slavonian, big botti and all the excuses I've heard, still don't detract from vanillan notes.

Something similar happened to me recently. Novices to Piedmont picked it up blind but more seasoned Barolo drinkers refused to accept vanilla in nebbiolo that wasn't made in barrique. The wine was good though- not like yours! An Aldo Conterno single vineyard from the 90's I vaguely recall.

Difficult to be sure what Aldo Conterno were doing in the 1990s, but I've reported here before of some hugely disappointing experiences with their wines from 1997 and 1998. I suspect some rather experimental techniques.

I'm still trying to work out Aldo Conterno and it's currently a producer I avoid buying. I've had it a few times over recent years. Some good experiences, some bad. A 2005 Romirasco I brought to an offline last year was just a big oaky nonsense.

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Superb performance of these two Azelia Barolos ! I had my new Plumm glasses ( the big Pinot units ) and a good friend in Mt Macedon with no experience in Piedmont .

The glasses permitted pristine aromatics and palate delivery excellent. San Rocco showed no overt oak and had relaxed Serralunga muscle with good complexity mixed with the vintage darkness .

Margheria was a gentle and complex in comparison. Often my favourite Cru of Azelia though easily bettered in the best vintages by San Rocco .

Don’t dismiss the vintage here . 93pts for both . Enjoy now for 10 +

Ozzie W wrote:I'm still trying to work out Aldo Conterno and it's currently a producer I avoid buying. I've had it a few times over recent years. Some good experiences, some bad. A 2005 Romirasco I brought to an offline last year was just a big oaky nonsense.

I also ran into some big oaky nonsense with a bottle purchased in Alba. Don't recall the vintage unfortunately...

I opened these four on a Sunday and consumed over the week.

Been some keen offers on non-hyped Barolo vintages. The Cavallotto Riserva was very good and in time will justify its discount versus the lauded vintage. My gripe being the tannin structure a little biting. Still a comfortable 94pts+. Three bottles each of Vignolo and San Giuseppe now in the Aussie cellar.

The Marchesi's Barbaresco was interesting with a good fruit evolution but never lost a steely acidity. Not a buy for me.


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Neither worth a note. Day 5 the Roero came good. Love to know what their oak regime is? It was hard and pine dominant. The Vatellina was dirty. Down the sink