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Maybe the great wines are just the older ones that don't fall apart?Craig, I absolutely agree with your comments re the young wines in verticals. I’ve posted the same thought repeatedly. Most critics do the same thing.
Craig(NZ) wrote:Winemakers agree on one thing: the vintage for sale is the best ever. I give Peter Cowley shit about it as he rolls it out every year. Now he says to me "Craig this is the best 2016 Coleraine we have ever made".Gary W wrote:The young wines are most often better, and in the case of Coleraine, aside freak 82 first crop, a golden era starting around 2007-> and really stepping up from there. Winemakers agree...
Craig,Craig(NZ) wrote:Maybe the great wines are just the older ones that don't fall apart?Craig, I absolutely agree with your comments re the young wines in verticals. I’ve posted the same thought repeatedly. Most critics do the same thing.
GaryGary W wrote:The young wines are most often better, and in the case of Coleraine, aside freak 82 first crop, a golden era starting around 2007-> and really stepping up from there. Winemakers agree...
my notes of Gary's notes?mjs wrote:Craig,Craig(NZ) wrote:Maybe the great wines are just the older ones that don't fall apart?Craig, I absolutely agree with your comments re the young wines in verticals. I’ve posted the same thought repeatedly. Most critics do the same thing.
I would have to say, if I hadn’t tasted Coleraine and I was reading your notes, I would say that with only one or two exceptions, it wasn’t a wine that ages well. At least that’s the impression I get from your notes. I have only tasted some relatively young Coleraines, they gave me the impression that it is a very high quality wine with the potential to age, I just haven’t personally experienced some older versions.
Cheers, Malcolm
2007 on release seemed an immortal vintage but it is starting now to enter its drinking window. Still good for another decade though in my opinionrooman wrote:GaryGary W wrote:The young wines are most often better, and in the case of Coleraine, aside freak 82 first crop, a golden era starting around 2007-> and really stepping up from there. Winemakers agree...
I was very pleased to read your comments re the 2007s as this is the only vintage of Coleraine I have in any volume. Given we both have kids born in 2007 I recall the effort trying to find any decent reds to cellar that might last the distance. Any thoughts on how long this vintage might go?
As to whether it’s the best kiwi red, I still believe I prefer Stonyridge Larose and also have some of their 2007 which is definitely a long term cellar.
Mark
I think I have some 2007 too. Good now, another decade at least I'd say. Was not tasting with a view to cellaring and there were 30 something wines in quick order, so, to an extent, I write the condition of the wine into the note - i.e. drying out, tiring, looks full of fruit etc.rooman wrote:GaryGary W wrote:The young wines are most often better, and in the case of Coleraine, aside freak 82 first crop, a golden era starting around 2007-> and really stepping up from there. Winemakers agree...
I was very pleased to read your comments re the 2007s as this is the only vintage of Coleraine I have in any volume. Given we both have kids born in 2007 I recall the effort trying to find any decent reds to cellar that might last the distance. Any thoughts on how long this vintage might go?
As to whether it’s the best kiwi red, I still believe I prefer Stonyridge Larose and also have some of their 2007 which is definitely a long term cellar.
Mark
Oops, good pickup. Yes, Gary’s notesCraig(NZ) wrote:my notes of Gary's notes?mjs wrote:Craig,Craig(NZ) wrote:
Maybe the great wines are just the older ones that don't fall apart?
I would have to say, if I hadn’t tasted Coleraine and I was reading your notes, I would say that with only one or two exceptions, it wasn’t a wine that ages well. At least that’s the impression I get from your notes. I have only tasted some relatively young Coleraines, they gave me the impression that it is a very high quality wine with the potential to age, I just haven’t personally experienced some older versions.
Cheers, Malcolm
Lesser vintage is good for an easy 10 years. A great vintage 30 years.
Hopefully you’re right heheTheporkrail wrote:Great post this, have just had a great half hours reading, couple of my thoughts
Some of the early Sami Odi wines are already unicorns, and I think will continue to be so, also several of the 2014 single site Hunter wines such as 4 acres, 1965 Vines Rosehill, etc will certainly be in contention. Also Standish "The Standish" 2012 is to me the epitome of this discussion, grapes from a vineyard he only got once (although he may have access to it again with the Lamella in recent years), just a one off of a wine that is just a level above the outstanding.
Sometimes I think these unicorn wines show up though from unlauded vintages too where something just goes right but no one expects it, no one keeps too many, and then magically the wine transforms to to a myth
ScottyScotty vino wrote:With the news coming out of Marius Im going to say any Marius wine!
I think the 2017 vintage wil be something special.
When The Wine front are calling the 2016 Marius Sym the best
No,rooman wrote:
What news are you referring to? Has the vineyard been sold?
mark
https://rogerpike.com.au/news/rooman wrote:ScottyScotty vino wrote:With the news coming out of Marius Im going to say any Marius wine!
I think the 2017 vintage wil be something special.
When The Wine front are calling the 2016 Marius Sym the best
What news are you referring to? Has the vineyard been sold?
mark
I'd heard about "Peppermint Patty" but not the background, so thanks for the information, good to know.felixp21 wrote:.... not at all. There was a period of maybe 2-3 months where the wine was released with good reviews, but after that, it was an absolute bun fight to get the wine. This story related to me by my father.... on advice from a mate at Tahbilk, he purchased 6 cases right at release, six months later when he tried to get more, it was impossible, with the price more than 5 times that at release. Just about every wine lover in Australia knew this was a freak wine within a year of release.Mahmoud Ali wrote:The 1963 Mildara Cabernet may well have been made in relatively large quantities but would it be fair to say it's iconic reputation was established when most bottles had already been consumed.
Roger from a personal perspective that’s a pity as I’ve only recently started cellaring your wines. Sadly it sounds as though you will be long gone before I decide to open the first bottle. From all accounts I have a treat to look forward to one day next decade.RogerPike wrote:https://rogerpike.com.au/news/rooman wrote:ScottyScotty vino wrote:With the news coming out of Marius Im going to say any Marius wine!
I think the 2017 vintage wil be something special.
When The Wine front are calling the 2016 Marius Sym the best
What news are you referring to? Has the vineyard been sold?
mark
Roger
Normally I would agree but with only two bottles each of the last vintage, opening one now feels more like infanticide.via collins wrote:
And Mark, it would be no sin to try any vintage early after a generous decant IMHO.
Is that a magnum i see !!VINH NGUYEN wrote:Hopefully you’re right heheTheporkrail wrote:Great post this, have just had a great half hours reading, couple of my thoughts
Some of the early Sami Odi wines are already unicorns, and I think will continue to be so, also several of the 2014 single site Hunter wines such as 4 acres, 1965 Vines Rosehill, etc will certainly be in contention. Also Standish "The Standish" 2012 is to me the epitome of this discussion, grapes from a vineyard he only got once (although he may have access to it again with the Lamella in recent years), just a one off of a wine that is just a level above the outstanding.
Sometimes I think these unicorn wines show up though from unlauded vintages too where something just goes right but no one expects it, no one keeps too many, and then magically the wine transforms to to a myth
Yes normally I try and put away 4-6 of any wine I cellar so I can try an early example but in this case sadly its only a couple. This topic goes to the heart of another point often discussed, namely how many bottles do people like to cellar of a particular wine. It is very rare I put away just two of a particular wine but in this case two is better than none.via collins wrote:Ah yes. Given that data Mark, I was being a tad cavalier
Can you guys educate me on what makes the 2012 The Standish so special? And for that matter why are the early Sami Odi wines different to say the last five vintages?VINH NGUYEN wrote:Hopefully you’re right heheTheporkrail wrote:Also Standish "The Standish" 2012 is to me the epitome of this discussion, grapes from a vineyard he only got once (although he may have access to it again with the Lamella in recent years), just a one off of a wine that is just a level above the outstanding.
Sometimes I think these unicorn wines show up though from unlauded vintages too where something just goes right but no one expects it, no one keeps too many, and then magically the wine transforms to to a myth
Dave,Hacker wrote:Can you guys educate me on what makes the 2012 The Standish so special? And for that matter why are the early Sami Odi wines different to say the last five vintages?VINH NGUYEN wrote:Hopefully you’re right heheTheporkrail wrote:Also Standish "The Standish" 2012 is to me the epitome of this discussion, grapes from a vineyard he only got once (although he may have access to it again with the Lamella in recent years), just a one off of a wine that is just a level above the outstanding.
Sometimes I think these unicorn wines show up though from unlauded vintages too where something just goes right but no one expects it, no one keeps too many, and then magically the wine transforms to to a myth
Thanks.
Very sorry to hear this news Roger. I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed that the right person comes along to be the next custodian of one of my favourite labels.RogerPike wrote:https://rogerpike.com.au/news/rooman wrote:ScottyScotty vino wrote:With the news coming out of Marius Im going to say any Marius wine!
I think the 2017 vintage wil be something special.
When The Wine front are calling the 2016 Marius Sym the best
What news are you referring to? Has the vineyard been sold?
mark
Roger