Wine annuals (epic)

[Sean]

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[Sean]

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[newworld]

Yeah. It's a great forum! It's the contributers (like yourself!) that make it.

Thanks again.

[Polymer]

Yeah, I discovered that a while back!
Sean, mate, you need to get all this lot on Cellartracker.
So easy to find for folks who are looking.
cheers,
GG

+1

There is a severe lack of notes for Australian stuff outside of the commonly exported ones...this would be great! Thanks for sharing Sean!

What Eric Levine has done with CellarTracker is certainly impressive. It is a huge world-wide resource. I suppose I always thought it was just for those people with real wine cellars and who wanted to keep a record of their wines online.

I can see it is also a great resource for those after tasting notes.

I am hoping by doing this here everyone sees the forum like that too. We have some great contributors (who drink better wines or write better tasting notes than me) and it would be great to have an easy way to get access to their tasting notes in a better way than Google or even the search function.

Only just wondering about this now. Is it because of the way the forum (or its program) works or just how we use it? I realise it cannot do everything for everyone and it does a lot already, ie those who want to talk about wine topics, organize off-lines, ask questions about wines as well as post tasting notes. I have a real sense of community using the forum the way we do, so that is something I probably value most and hang around for.

Maybe it is the nature of how the forum works. It is not structured like CellarTracker and it has a different purpose. So maybe it is not so much that people don’t post tasting notes here regularly (or that we need one section just for tasting notes), but they want other things out of this forum too or they have other things to do anyway!

I think TNs in a forum are great..but they're more for people to see and read something they might not have been looking for...or to remind them of something they might've thought of before..

CT is more of a database...so you're looking up a specific wine and looking to see what other people thought of it. You can always do random crawls through people's tasting notes but the number is so vast, you can't really do that...

CT is dominated though by European/US wine. You get TNs on other wine that is commonly sold in the US/EUR but, for example, Australian wine is barely covered at all...That's why I think your notes would be a great addition. It is good to see on here too btw, really fantastic....Although I have to admit, it is a lot to go through in one (or a few) sittings....

[Sean]

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[TiggerK]

I think Cellartracker is a great way to track the development of your cellared wines, and also another tool in the belt when researching wines to buy (sometimes new but especially wines at auction). I have my small cellar (200) in there, probably 60% Aussie, 30% Kiwi and 10% the rest, and I find that 80-90% of the wines have at least a few previous notes (special mention to GraemeG and camw!) and scores, FWIW. Of course you get various opinions, so grain of salt often required, but you can get a feel for how a wine is travelling from looking at the comments over the years. Easy to put a small cellar's worth of wines in, only takes a few hours really, and if you can be bothered keeping it up to date (I do, but don't always write notes), it's a great way to track what you have personally drunk and enjoyed over the years. I don't see it as 'public record' by the way, the default is for others to not see what's in your cellar, but they can see your notes, and even that is optional. Great resource for the wine community, as is this website!!

Cheers
Tim

[newworld]

Who cares what the Septics think with their corks, ribina flavoured wine and their 2 buck Chuck

Halliday is always banging on about the UK wine writers who dismiss any Australian wine with a well known name. I just got my family in the UK to buy some six packs of Australian wine (to educate them):

2x Annie's Lane Riesling
2x Mamre Brook Shiraz
2x Wynns Black Label Cabernet (2009 - my favourite)

All at an average price of AUD15 a bottle including delivery to their door.

No country in the world could produce such a high quality package of this diversity for so little money than this far flung, arid land.

[Sean]

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[Polymer]

CT is definitely more than just tracking what you have. As mentioned before, you can see how other people are perceiving a wine at its current state (if you have it). Some people use it for buying decisions...Some use the scores, some use the descriptors. For me it is somewhat helpful in narrowing down the general style of a wine I might buy but haven't tried in the past.

Some will disagree but a good number of people put more weight onto the opinions of the many TNs on CT than they would professional tasters.

I think the main thing for Australian wine is it just needs more coverage on CT. People may read your other TNs which lead them to another wine they might not have heard of..but might be influenced to try....

NewWorld: Australia does have a lot of good lower end wine..but really, if you broke it down..you can find a lot of great stuff from all over..(outside of Australia). I actually think France has better diversity and quality at that 15AUD mark though. They just have so many regions...and they cover nearly everything...I think the only thing you can't really find from France for 15 AUD is really good Pinot Noir...
Otherwise they have everything Australia does plus more..Minus a good straight Semillon....
It just just unfortunate that the high AUD really puts Australian wine at a disadvantage overseas...There are already perception issues..the currency thing just adds to the pain...

[newworld]

Polymer. I'm in no position to give much of a response. Although I'm from the UK, I've done most of my wine drinking here and have found brilliant wines for around $15. Overseas wines are so expensive here as you say. But even for double the price I've never had a European wine that I really loved. I guess I'm very narrow in my tastes at this moment in my life........

BTW Well done for not reacting to Malo-mad. He (?) seems a very decent poster, so I hope we can all get along. Not reacting is a very good step in the right direction.

[Polymer]

Well I'm speaking 15 AUD from a global sense...as in what you could buy in a competitive environment...(So UK, HK, US, EUR, etc).
Here are some examples...
German Riesling..You can buy some really good stuff for 15 AUD. You can buy GG for 35..
Beaujolais. You can buy top notch Booj for 18-22...Some really good stuff at 15 as well...Oddly enough, that 3-5 dollars can make a world of dif..
Vouvray. Top notch stuff from Huet will be 25-35 but you can find some fantastic Vouvray for 9-15 AUD.
Bordeaux - Oddly enough, if you're buying from the lesser known areas, you can buy some fantastic stuff for under 15 AUD. You can look at stuff from places like Cotes de Castillon. So Cab Sav/Merlot/Cab Franc blends mainly...for 5-10 more and you're looking at some really fantastic stuff.
Chinon - Some fantastic Cab Franc stuff here...they're dirt cheap...a lot of stuff 10-20 dollars...
Langeudoc - A good mix of stuff here...
A lot of smaller areas will have really good Syrah....You might be able to pick up some stuff from the Rhone as well...although personally I've had less success in that 15AUD range from the Rhone...
Alsace - I prefer German Rieslings but plenty of great stuff out of Alsace for cheap...
Sancerre ...
I probably shouldn't have put the German stuff there since it sorta sticks out...You also already posted about the Rioja you've found so you know that can be found relatively cheap..
There are also a number of Italian wines you can find cheap as well...Even in Australia.

If you're from the UK, you probably had a chance to try most of these..maybe they weren't your style, nothing wrong w/ that. I think someone mentioned it earlier, most people start off liking the very big fruity style of wine. I think in general, most non wine geeks like that type of wine. The BIG fruit, smooth tannins, low acid, biggish alcohol. After awhile some people's palates change. Many start craving more acid...lower alcohol...less in your face fruit....Granted, this is still a relatively small minority..like those so into wine they might seek out wine forums on the internet .

[GraemeG]

Yeah - prices of foreign wines in Australia look very strange indeed; it's not just our appalling tax regime that says we're very isolated.

On Cellartracker, it's invaluable. I wasn't drawn to it initially to track my 500-odd bottle cellar (my spreadsheet was perfectly OK), but as a tasting note repository. I'd posted plenty of notes that had been lost over the years on WLDG, previous iterations here at Auswine (pre-2003, f'rinstance) and so forth, not to mention the rather silly feeling of posting notes on three or four different forums.
I figure even if Eric gets run over by a bus, CT will be around pretty much forever. Plus, I liked the 'voluntary' aspect of CT, although I have stumped up a annual sub for the last couple of years.

For me, the best bit is collating all my notes on the same wine and having them all easily visible together. Plus, they're incredibly easy to find compared to searching a forum. I have 6 TNs on 1996 St Henri, from 2002-2011. Can't do that anywhere else. And the database facilities are second to none.

The couple of million TNs by others are of mixed value. But it's quite easy to find at least a dozen or so other folk who seem to find the same thing in the same wines that you do, which prompts you to see what else they like. I often do a little research before speculating at auction; just getting a feel for the wine. If 8 or 10 people have all said the same thing about some Sonoma cabernet, you get a pretty good idea of what it's like, even if they're not professionals.

And it's time Walsh & Mattinson got their notes up there. I might re-subscribe then...
cheers,
GG

[newworld]

Polymer. I'm a wandering traveller who left the UK shortly after the binge drinking age - no thought for taste much then.

[paulf]

Firstly - great work Sean. I wonder whether i could ever be organised enough to write notes for everything (or even a good percentage) of what I drink.
I've thought about using Cellar Tracker for a while now. I haven't been tipped over the edge yet, but I'll probably look at it again as I intend converting the bulk of my offsite storage from managed cellar (where i get an online inventory) to a locker. One advantage of posting the notes in this forum is it promotes discussion about the wine.

On the subject of Americans and their knowledge of Australian wine, I think it wouldn't be a stretch to say that those who are wine buffs have a far better knowledge of our wine than we have of theirs.
I did a wine tour recently in Portugal, which was mostly Americans, and I was surprised at how much they knew. For instance, one of the guys mentioned that he had been getting wine from Sanguine estate in Heathcote. I was asked a lot of questions as well.
I'd say that the exchange rate combined with the financial problems over the past couple of years in the US have no doubt made it harder.

On wines in the UK, the last time I had a really good look was a few years ago before the dollar kicked up and there was already a lot of competition from Chile and Argentina along with the French stuff. I'd expect now that there would also be a lot of fairly good Spanish and Portuguese wine on the shelves as well.

[Sean]

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[TiggerK]

Given that many CT users are from the USA, it's interesting to see what wine notes pop up (For all the wines in your cellar, you get a list of new notes as they appear). Overwhelmingly it's Penfolds and John Duval wines, plus a few Kiwi Pinots, and of course the wines I have from the US.

P.S Sean, who was that writer? Suckling, Parker etc? Suckling is now a bit of a convert after a recent tour.

[GraemeG]

Given that many CT users are from the USA, it's interesting to see what wine notes pop up (For all the wines in your cellar, you get a list of new notes as they appear).

The overall Australian TN count - top 12 - looks like this:

Penfolds (88.9 pts. in 5,119 notes)
d'Arenberg (88.9 pts. in 4,629 notes)
Mollydooker (89.7 pts. in 3,328 notes)
Two Hands (90.5 pts. in 2,846 notes)
Yalumba (88.4 pts. in 2,487 notes)
Marquis Philips (88.7 pts. in 2,366 notes)
Torbreck (90.3 pts. in 2,203 notes)
Mitolo (90.7 pts. in 1,793 notes)
Glaetzer (91.7 pts. in 1,659 notes)
Rosemount Estate (87.0 pts. in 1,632 notes)
Peter Lehmann (87.7 pts. in 1,624 notes)
Thorn-Clarke (88.6 pts. in 1,549 notes)

Not exactly the way it would look if it were only populated by Australian-based drinkers...
Top 10 of country tasting notes:

USA (89.0 pts. in 704,762 notes)
France (89.2 pts. in 532,314 notes)
Italy (88.5 pts. in 181,248 notes)
Australia (88.5 pts. in 104,304 notes)
Spain (88.1 pts. in 85,843 notes)
Germany (89.1 pts. in 44,954 notes)
Argentina (87.1 pts. in 29,661 notes)
Chile (87.0 pts. in 25,195 notes)
New Zealand (87.7 pts. in 24,183 notes)
Portugal (88.8 pts. in 20,992 notes)

No real surprises there...
cheers,
GG

[Sean]

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[TiggerK]

Ah yes, see the guru reference, but undeserved until proven otherwise IMHO. He of the Citroen DS, snobby serious intensity and funny round glasses..... Generalisations like that always get my back up, even if aimed at trolling concepts. And as for 'all the same and high alcohol'..... um hello, California, Mork calling Orsen, come in endless hot CA reds??

He obviously needs more education on Oz wines, but then again, he was here a few weeks back! No doubt baiting indeed, statements like that are dumb, and he doesn't seem that.

As as for the CT top count, my cellar is lacking almost all of those!! (Got 1,2,5 and 9).

[Polymer]

On the subject of Americans and their knowledge of Australian wine, I think it wouldn't be a stretch to say that those who are wine buffs have a far better knowledge of our wine than we have of theirs.
I did a wine tour recently in Portugal, which was mostly Americans, and I was surprised at how much they knew. For instance, one of the guys mentioned that he had been getting wine from Sanguine estate in Heathcote. I was asked a lot of questions as well.
I'd say that the exchange rate combined with the financial problems over the past couple of years in the US have no doubt made it harder.

On wines in the UK, the last time I had a really good look was a few years ago before the dollar kicked up and there was already a lot of competition from Chile and Argentina along with the French stuff. I'd expect now that there would also be a lot of fairly good Spanish and Portuguese wine on the shelves as well.

Sanguine Estate used to export to the US quite heavily...I don't think that is the case any longer...I think they stopped around the same time Rockford stopped.

Definitely the wine geeks there know more about Australian wine than Australians know about US wine...For one, it is far easier to source...Secondly, they have competitive pricing there so Australian wine isn't stupid expensive....but as far as knowing Australian wine...not really. You get some people that will be fans of some of the Dry Riesling...A rare few that like Hunter Semillon...but overall, 85% of the wine is Barossa/McLaren Vale..A bit of of Margaret River..and then a small mix of everything else...

People that are a bit more educated on the subject will know there are other types of wine out of Australia besides the big fruit bomb..but it is also exceedingly hard to find...

[bob parsons]

Last night I opened the `02 Tahbilk Marsanne and found it to have peaked which was a disappointment. Storage was in Kentucky but think OK. Pity.

Ooops, I might be in wrong thread. LOL.

[sjw_11]

Ah yes the Tahbilk Marsanne, wasn't that a 25m case sell out for Costco?

[Sean]

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[Sean]

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[bob parsons]

Thanks Sean for your imput. The next one I have here is the `06, again donated by a pal in Kentucky.
The current vintage here is the `10, with a new label. I guess it is worth some $$$ outlay!!

[Sean]

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[GraemeG]

A pity about the 02 Tahbilk marsanne you had by the way. The vintage was a good one in terms of producing wines with lots of natural acidity and I remember the marsanne having all the things you look for in the classic Tahbilk ones early on. The last time I had it in 2008 it was ready to drink and I drink them mostly around that 5 or 6 yr mark anyway. If you like them 10 yrs or older (I probably do not in all honesty) it should have been OK. But then again the 03 is kicking ass and a bottle that I had last year was mature and ready to drink (and had all the character you want in these aged marsannes), but will go longer. I have been drinking more of the 03 than the 02 and it has unexpectedly turned out to be the better one to hang onto.

In Oz, at least, the 2002 was all under cork, only with 2003 did screwcap become a closure choice.
Typically, my very last 2002 was thoroughly buggered last July. Here's my CT note:
2002 Tahbilk Marsanne - Australia, Victoria, Central Victoria, Nagambie Lakes (7/18/2011)
{cork - stamped "CSA R2", 12.5%} Even looking at this, unopened, through the dark green glass, I knew it was oxidised all to hell. Ullage was fine, and only in one spot was the cork (R2 = "reference 2" I suppose, as supplied to Australia - doubtless it's 3rd rate rubbish) stained to about halfway up. Nonetheless, the wine was a dark yellow; exactly the kind of urine sample you'd be afraid to give to a doctor. And although parts of the structure have survived - the acid spine is magnificent - the aromas and flavours are mildly sherried and flat, and there is no length of flavour whatsoever. The is was my last cork-sealed, standard-release Tahbilk Marsanne (from the 03 vintage the Australian market got screwcapped bottles); how disappointingly fitting it should be ruined as a tribute to all the other ruined vintages that have gone before. Sigh. NR (flawed)

Whereas a 2003 drunk the month before:
2003 Tahbilk Marsanne - Australia, Victoria, Central Victoria, Nagambie Lakes (6/15/2011)
{screwcap, 12.5%} Quite a deep yellow colour. The nose is has a lanolin, slightly sweaty aroma about it; initially tinged with rubbery reductive characters which graduallly blow off in such a way that I never quite know whether they're gone. Hmmm. The palate is dry, but with honeysuckle and marzipan-type flavours, a touch of that lemon, and still-persistent acid which keeps the wine fairly fresh, despite the generally developed nature of the flavours. It's around medium-bodied; interesting to taste a wine with a relatively dense texture but with no signs of oak maturity at all (this wine sees none, of course). As it sits in the glass there's a grapefruit tinge to the flavour; it's quite even in its presence on the palate, although the finish isn't longer than 'medium length'. Slight concern about the reduction notwithstanding, I'd be happy to give this another 5 years in the cellar at least; Tahbilk's own cellaring recommendations have the 96-99 vintages at peak drinking, I see no reason to dispute that timeline when it comes to the 03.
Posted from CellarTracker

We seem to be in general agreement.
cheers,
GG

[Bob H.]

Last night I opened the `02 Tahbilk Marsanne and found it to have peaked which was a disappointment. Storage was in Kentucky but think OK. Pity.

Ooops, I might be in wrong thread. LOL.

Hello Bob! Thanks for calling my attention to this thread. I don't come into any wine forums much anymore< Fact is that the local homegrown forum has become quite boring. Ive been a member of it since 1996 but all the changes over the year it doesn't even resemble what it once was.

About the '02 Marsanne, I haven't had a bottle of it in several months, maybe a year, so it is time for me to revisit, and perhaps drink up. I sure hope the '06 will show better. I just checked my wine cellar and I seem to have a large surplus of the 2002. Will pull a bottle yet today and report to you.

[bob parsons]

Good, pull one Bob and lets see. Agree about that other place, have you visited Beserkers?

[Bob H.]

Good, pull one Bob and lets see. Agree about that other place, have you visited Beserkers?

Bob, I pulled bark on one yesterday and found it to be quite palatable. Yes the color has darkened to a burnished gold, but I expect that to happen, On the nose I found citrus (lemon) a touch of hazelnut, and quite a lot of honeysuckle. These were echoed on the tongue with some petrol added. This vintage was a bit higher in acidity than some and I find that it is still all there when a tad less would make the wine more enjoyable. I have over half a bottle left uncorked in the fridge so we shall see how it held up. Overall, I think I have a case of these, and while I usually like them out to 10 or more years, I will drink these 12 this summer. Thanks for pointing this thread out to me. No, I don't do Berserkers.