Tanzer on New Zealand Syrahs

[pizzler]

When I joined this forum two years ago, two Mikes (Bick and KMP) responded to my "who am I?" interest in NZ whites and pinots by predicting that NZ Syrahs would burst onto the scene in the next five years or so.

My favorite reviewer, Stephen Tanzer, agreed with them in a recent online article on NZ Syrahs. Notables included Passage Rock, Bilancia, and Craggy Range. He suggested that lovers of Northern Rhone wines should like NZ Syrahs. Now I just have to patiently wait for them to make their way to the US.

Kudos Mike & Mike!

[Wizz]

No great surprise for me - I enjoy them every time I try them - Craggy Range, Bilancia, Vidal, TeMata, and there are others I've missed. Syrah with great style.

Cheers

Andrew

[Craig(NZ)]

pffft. 2 years ago my arse. 2 years ago it was hardly a "prediction" it was a "reality"

I made the same prediction upon tasting the astounding 1999 Matariki Reserve Syrah about a decade ago. It had levels of ripeness and concentration I had never seen in that context before and all from a pretty average vintage. Then also underlined again when the big bad 2002's hit the market whether 2002 Craggy Range Le Sol, 2002 Vidals Reserve or 2002 Unison. All of which still sit in my cellar. Then the same with Waiheke upon tasting the 2005 Passage Rock Reserve (which Sue 'discovered')

I was probably almost "mocked" originally at the time by the pie eating barossa vanilla milkshake brigade, but it appears many have now become sick of that style and are moving on.

Takes a while for people to catch up on cutting edge news

Next predictions? Next 2-3 years it is all about Auckland and its 3 great vintages 08-10. Big comeback time for this forgotten region. Puriri Hills in 3 years time will be a more well known rock star and Waiheke Syrah will be at least as well known as Hawkes Bay. Kumeu River's 2010's will be stars.

[odyssey]

Would love to get stuck into some Auckland/Waiheke wines - are there any that you recommend that are affordable & commonly exported Craig?

Cheers

[Craig(NZ)]

Odyssey

The Kumeu River Chardonnay's are the obvious ones; the single vineyard ones; Hunting Hill, Coddington and especially Mates. 2008 versions are excellent and the 2010 versions perhaps have the opportunity to be best ever when they come out in 18 months time! I just love these wines there is just so much x factor in them. Gorgeous oak handling and cean, pure exciting fruit. The Mates also with a lashing of that saline/ oyster shell thing going on.

Puriri Hills does go into Australia although at a hefty price premium on a tag that some would already call presumptious (unless you are a fan like me). These are elegant "dinner claret" styles which already are proving to respond remarkably well to cellar age.

Waiheke is small even by NZ standards so not sure what makes it as far as Australia. Stonyridge Larose, Te Whau "The Point", Mudbrick Reserve Syrah, Passage Rock Reserve Syrah are dependable labels. Stonyridge is dripping the exotic and x factor. Te Whau is very stately and refined. Mudbricks Syrah is lovely textured and rich and Passage Rock bold and concentrated most vintages.

[odyssey]

Thanks muchly Craig, gives me something to think about when next on a shopping binge (which I feel coming on pretty soon...). Unfortunately many/most of those reds, whilst I've heard about them and seen a few of them around, are out of my everyday budget but always good to add to the wishlist.

Cheers

[Craig(NZ)]

Yes, there are various examples of massive price differences in wine between NZ and Aussie. $99NZ vs $350AU for PH Pope comes to mind. Sucks to be you in that regard. But hey you guys on average get paid better and while your cricket team has been beaten by Bangladesh, at least not twice in a row like us

[Polymer]

Definitely a lot of great stuff coming out of NZ...None of my friends really listen to me but hopefully we see/hear more about NZ stuff in the future..

The biggest problem I see for them is PRICE.

GREAT prices in NZ for a lot of their stuff...TERRIBLE pricing in OZ and everywhere else....There are a few things that get priced alright in the US and UK but as a whole, it's just really bad...

Not to mention availability of a lot of their stuff outside of NZ is really bad....I can see NZ stuff taking off but I don't know if they're doing themselves any favors the way things are done right now..

[Craig(NZ)]

Yes price is an issue but perhaps that is just a function of supply. Such small quantities with some of these top wines. In many cases you are talking 200-1000 cases. By the time the domestic market is catered for there isn't much left to go around??

[KMP]

Thanks puzzler.

Craig may be correct that NZ Syrah were world beaters 10 years ago but I can't say that with confidence as my only serious exposure was a visit at the end of 2006. A report by Geoff Kelly written earlier this year might help put things in perspective.

In 2006 I was very impressed with Hawkes Bay Syrah not only because the wines were very good but also because there is a rich diversity of styles from that region; much more so than any single region in Oz. That may well change as a regional style becomes defined. I was far less impressed with the wines on Waiheke Island and did not think it a serious wine destination. Things may have changed in the last few years as they often do in areas where there is a quality gap. In this part of the world you only have to look at the changes in Mexican wine over the last decade to realize that.

But for me the reality is that with the exception of Sav blac and a few Pinots NZ wines still don't have any impact here in the US. If fact Syrah wines are so scarce on the ground that I've given up trying to collect them. I have a half-doz Hawkes Bay Syrah from 2004/5 sitting in the cellar, growing old. Sad to think that they may be the only real exposure to NZ Syrah in my future.

Mike

[Craig(NZ)]

Craig may be correct that NZ Syrah were world beaters 10 years ago but I can't say that with confidence as my only serious exposure was a visit at the end of 2006. A report by Geoff Kelly written earlier this year might help put things in perspective.

I don't know about "world beaters", but 10 years ago certainly there was the excitement in the air that Syrah was going to be Hawkes Bay's "next big thing"

Waiheke was of course more a bdx blend mecca driven by the likes of goldwater and stonyridge with great vintages like 94. I think then waiheke lost its way with a pile of lesser producers jumping on the bandwagon and charging presumpuous bucks for average wines. Lately though Syrah has started to become quite dominant with only a few producers really nailing the top end bdx market. Quantities are tiny though. On my trip there earlier in the year the fantastic 2008 vintage was on display (the first of 3 quality Auckland vintages in a row). Mudbrick, Stonyridge and Passage Rock had the best Syrah's we tasted and you could argue they were the best wines in each portfolio as well.

Will be interesting to watch although I still am more a bdx blend guy

[Polymer]

Yes price is an issue but perhaps that is just a function of supply. Such small quantities with some of these top wines. In many cases you are talking 200-1000 cases. By the time the domestic market is catered for there isn't much left to go around??

It could be..I'm not sure I buy that though...

It does seem like NZ only has NZ and AUS wine (and often at a better price than in Australia..which doesn't make sense) with imports really hard to find and expensive...

Still, I'm not quite sure why more NZ wine isn't finding their way out of the country...If supply is low, raise the price domestically so you get a better balance and allow for some exporting...

I guess I see so much NZ Sav Blanc show up everywhere I keep hoping to see some of the other stuff a bit more...

[Craig(NZ)]

If supply is low, raise the price domestically so you get a better balance and allow for some exporting...

Ha ha, I vote "No" to that one. And I have the casting vote so you are stuffed. I also vote we only export C Grade Sauvignon Blanc

Imagine for a moment if you will; us kiwis flying to Sydney to buy our Coleraine, Felton Rd Block, or Le Sol? Or madly calling Australian retailers organising for it to re-cross the Tasman again back here to our cellars?

We would increase Australia's wealth as Aussie distributers/retailers clip the ticket in the same way NZ does selling you guys back Grange or Hill of Grace at a tasty margin? And it happens; a major retailer here this year sold all but one bottle of their HOG allocation back to Aussie. We would then be the target of the same mocking you guys receive, diverting scorn from our cricket results or lack of gold medals at the commonwealth games (aren't they on at the moment? I will have to check)?

Our wineries would then have the same respect given to the likes of Penfolds that have people queing at the cellar door on release day in case they miss out (imagine the anxiety, some of these guys probably can't sleep the night before) while at the same time bottles sit gathering dust on supermarket shelves in New Zealand!

[Polymer]

I'm not implying that you make it more expensive domestically than it is elsewhere but right now, it's not even remotely close...

I think the main problem I see with NZ wines (at least the ones I'm thinking of besides the typical SB) is they're overpriced elsewhere or at least, don't have the established reputation to be charging the price they do....Typically it's 1.5-2x's the price it is in NZ..that's just nuts...

[Craig(NZ)]

I'm not implying that you make it more expensive domestically than it is elsewhere but right now, it's not even remotely close...

I think the main problem I see with NZ wines (at least the ones I'm thinking of besides the typical SB) is they're overpriced elsewhere or at least, don't have the established reputation to be charging the price they do....Typically it's 1.5-2x's the price it is in NZ..that's just nuts...

Yip it is. But how much of it is the horrible WET tax/ various excises? Can't blame NZ producers for that, can blame your dear government/s?

[daz]

I've not bothered to look for red NZ Rhone, Bordeaux or Burgundy equivalents here because it seems that those that are reputedly worthwhile just don't seem to trip the Tasman which is a bit curious given the current exchange rate differential. Apparently there are some good cool-climate syrah/shiraz being manufactured in some areas of NZ, pinot noir can apparently be good too but there's not been much mention of cabernet sauvignon, cabernet franc, malbec, mouverdre, petit verdot, certainly none of grenache, tempranillo.

What's the big deal about a seriously limited number of medium/full-bodied red wines that have even more limited availability outside NZ and unrealistic prices here in relation to equal or better quality Aus-produced wines at lower price points that are also subject to WET/GST taxes?

Where are the kiwi syrah and cabernet sauvignon and blends that are affordable here?

[Craig(NZ)]

What's the big deal about a seriously limited number of medium/full-bodied red wines that have even more limited availability outside NZ and unrealistic prices here in relation to equal or better quality Aus-produced wines at lower price points that are also subject to WET/GST taxes?

Where are the kiwi syrah and cabernet sauvignon and blends that are affordable here?

Oh how times change. After well over a decade of posting on this forum, it is nice to see at last some nz red wine respect. Tell you what...next time I come to Brisbane I will take an order from you and personally courier you over some good stuff

Hmm and as for exchange rate, yeah makes it a bit expensive for us poor kiwis coming over. I prefered it at 0.95, not the 0.75 we have at the mo!! Maybe one of you needs to start a business buying in some NZ labels!?

[Polymer]

WET is one aspect of why it's more expensive in Australia but it doesn't explain why that problem exists in other places (like the US for example). Although I would say the pricing is not as bad as it is in Australia but not very good for sure... and the availability is terrible..

I definitely think WET is a joke...Australia is a fairly major economy yet there are so many protected industries...Actually, Australian consumers get screwed over in general on everything so wine really isn't anything unusual..

As far as NZ wines...They definitely have a lot of nice Bdx blends..quite a few in fact..

[Jay60A]

WET is one aspect of why it's more expensive in Australia but it doesn't explain why that problem exists in other places (like the US for example). Although I would say the pricing is not as bad as it is in Australia but not very good for sure... and the availability is terrible..

I definitely think WET is a joke...Australia is a fairly major economy yet there are so many protected industries...Actually, Australian consumers get screwed over in general on everything so wine really isn't anything unusual..

As far as NZ wines...They definitely have a lot of nice Bdx blends..quite a few in fact..

Polymer, the US get screwed on wine by their three tier distribution system where margins are added in each layer ... check the prices of Aussie wine there you see the same pattern. The NZ prices in UK if you check major wine merchants is normally comparable to NZ plus our VAT rate, or indeed cheaper. We get most of the leading wines as the wine market here is very interested in them (we also suffer from masses of supermarket label sauv-blank, so there is a glut).

[Polymer]

WET is one aspect of why it's more expensive in Australia but it doesn't explain why that problem exists in other places (like the US for example). Although I would say the pricing is not as bad as it is in Australia but not very good for sure... and the availability is terrible..

I definitely think WET is a joke...Australia is a fairly major economy yet there are so many protected industries...Actually, Australian consumers get screwed over in general on everything so wine really isn't anything unusual..

As far as NZ wines...They definitely have a lot of nice Bdx blends..quite a few in fact..

Polymer, the US get screwed on wine by their three tier distribution system where margins are added in each layer ... check the prices of Aussie wine there you see the same pattern. The NZ prices in UK if you check major wine merchants is normally comparable to NZ plus our VAT rate, or indeed cheaper. We get most of the leading wines as the wine market here is very interested in them (we also suffer from masses of supermarket label sauv-blank, so there is a glut).

Completely untrue... Since I spend a considerable amount of time there I have a good amount of experience on this...You only need to look at something like Penfolds and you can see that it's far CHEAPER in the US than in Australia ...The ones that aren't are generally the smaller wineries where you'll see the prices to be about the same..maybe slightly cheaper , maybe slightly more expensive....This is not considering the current exchange rate but even a more normalized one like .7-.8. This is also not considering the older vintages...This is on the latest vintage.
The three tier distribution is not really a concern right now and while some places still use it, they work on much smaller margins...