Just booked flights/car for the Xmas break this year. Get down to MR on the 27th December, leave 1st January 010 (presumably hungover...)
What are the 'must see' places in Margaret River between Xmas and New Year?
I have car, so getting out of the usual tourist destination is no problem...
I'd like to see: Cabernet, Viognier,Shiraz emerging varieties....Is that limiting it????
Cheers,
Tim
Margaret River 09/10
Re: Margaret River 09/10
Hi Tim
I went to Margaret River about a month ago (slightly less) and visited about 23 wineries. Wrote a mega length summary of my experience on a couple of other forums (only did not put it here because kind of figured it would be repetitive).
One of the things I did notice was the amount of wineries that were producing a Viognier (and also Tempranillo) - I have cut and paste what I thought on Viogniers below. Per the below I tasted Viogniers at 6 different wineries - the only winery below that you could not just rock up and visit is Blue Poles, although it is well worth a visit and Mark and Gail Gifford (as well as Jackson the dog) are very accomomodating (just make sure you not only follow Mark's instructions to the winery but also don't stuff them up). I also understand that if you are going to taste Viognier that apparently must go to Happs (one I missed). From a quick scan of the winecompanion website it seems that Swings and Roundabouts and Watershed also do a Viognier (so that would give you about ten to taste). I also note that Cape Mentelle had made their own list of "alternative varieties" being made in the Margaret River region - I don't think it is conclusive but maybe if you started your visit there you could ask to have a look at it and see if there are any other Viognier producers you want to get to (in any event Cape Mentelle were also tasting the Shiraz 07 and Cab Sav 05 so they would also fulfill your other wine aims).
"Viognier: I had expected (purely from perception) that the “other white†I would see most of in Margaret River would be Chenin Blanc (of which I tasted 3) and Verdelho (of which I tasted one). On the other hand I ended up tasting 7 Viogniers (from Blue Poles, Cape Mentelle – including a Botrytis, Vasse Felix, Stella Bella, Evans & Tate and Xanadu). Broadly, I had similar thoughts to the Tempranillo (i.e. everyone seemed to be doing their own thing and nothing largely stood out), however I did do a bit better at finding a couple I actually liked being the Blue Poles (which was the most different to the others – which seems to be a good thing) and the Cape Mentelle."
As far as Cab Sav and Shiraz go - starting with the six wineries I went to that have a Viognier - Cape Mentelle (as mentioned) are definitely worth also visiting for Cab Sav and Shiraz, Vasse Felix had no Heytesbury and were on 06s for Cab Sav and Shiraz (so may be worth asking what they are tasting or just risking it), Stella Bella had a pretty good Shiraz and an 06 Suckfizzle Cab Sav (expensive but not great - may be good if they moved onto 07 as well), Blue Poles have Shiraz planted but have not produced one yet and don't do a Cab Sav (although interesting to taste their Reserve Merlot and Merlot Cab Franc), Evans and Tate weren't showing their best stuff (no Reserve Shiraz 05 - which has lots of awards and high ratings) and seemed a bit random with what they show (would not recommend them unless they happening to be showing the Reserves or something more exciting than when I was there) and Xanadu may be worth a visit (they have a couple of levels of Cab Savs and Shiraz) and probably them and Cape Mentelle that would best fit your three varieties of choice.
As far as just Shiraz and Cab Sav goes from other wineries. Windance Estate had very good reds and were showing three vintages of Shiraz, 1 Reserve Shiraz, 1 Reserve Cab Sav and three vintages of Cab Merlot (if they count). When I was there Woodlands were showing two vintages of their top Cab Sav - 07 looked really good, and plenty of Cab Merlots (07 Margaret, 06 Margaret and 08 standard) - so they could be a good option if showing the same wines. Voyager had their 06 Shiraz when I was there and 04 Cab Merlot and 04 Tom Price for a fee (Tom Price may give you some interest even though I was not a big fan). Leeuwin's Art Series Shiraz 07 and Art Series Cab Sav 04 were also surprisingly good (they also had a 2000 Art Series Cab Sav that was not looking too good). Brown Hill Estate had about three Cab Savs and two Shiraz to try - I actually liked their wines but thought they were quite different (I didn't know how to describe them other than very natural). Howard Park had plenty of wines to try - Lestons, Scotsdale, Abercrombies, Madfish (so heaps of Cab Sav and Shiraz) at different price ranges - a lot very good. I liked the Victory Point Cab Sav 07 (and also tasted an 05) but they require an appointment so might be a lot of effort to just try one wine. Juniper Estate (across the road from Vasse Felix) had pretty good 04 Shiraz and 05 Cab Sav open when I was there (may be good if 07 is open - as saw that Nick Stock was pretty excited about it in the Penguin Wine Guide). Lenton Brae had quite a good 08 Shiraz but unless they have moved onto the 07 Cab Sav (I had 06 when I was there) I probably would not bother with them.
Only others that may be worth a visit (that I went to) particularly for Cab Sav are:
- Cullen for the Diana Madeline 07 although want to be careful that they have it open (I needed to make a big deal to get to try it)
- Moss Wood - when I went to Moss Wood they were showing the 06 Cab Sav and and 08 barrel sample (and 8 other wines) but I understand they can be hit and miss with the wines they are showing. Also need to make an appointment here.
- Hay Shed Hill were also doing a couple of pretty good Cab Sav and Pierro a couple of Cab Merlots (wouldn't go to special efforts for these given they only fill one of the 3 varieties you are looking for). Although if you are looking to buy some cheese in Margaret River then Hay Shed Hill seems the place to go.
- Brookland Valley - although these were really Cab Merlots (although really liked 04 standard - also tasted Reserve Cab Sav 03).
Wills Domain, Saracen (neither of which impressed me much) and Cape Grace (which have a Shiraz and probably a Cab Sav by the time you will be there) are the other three wineries I went to which I would not think worth a special effort given what you are looking for (although I like Cape Grace for something different).
I went to Margaret River about a month ago (slightly less) and visited about 23 wineries. Wrote a mega length summary of my experience on a couple of other forums (only did not put it here because kind of figured it would be repetitive).
One of the things I did notice was the amount of wineries that were producing a Viognier (and also Tempranillo) - I have cut and paste what I thought on Viogniers below. Per the below I tasted Viogniers at 6 different wineries - the only winery below that you could not just rock up and visit is Blue Poles, although it is well worth a visit and Mark and Gail Gifford (as well as Jackson the dog) are very accomomodating (just make sure you not only follow Mark's instructions to the winery but also don't stuff them up). I also understand that if you are going to taste Viognier that apparently must go to Happs (one I missed). From a quick scan of the winecompanion website it seems that Swings and Roundabouts and Watershed also do a Viognier (so that would give you about ten to taste). I also note that Cape Mentelle had made their own list of "alternative varieties" being made in the Margaret River region - I don't think it is conclusive but maybe if you started your visit there you could ask to have a look at it and see if there are any other Viognier producers you want to get to (in any event Cape Mentelle were also tasting the Shiraz 07 and Cab Sav 05 so they would also fulfill your other wine aims).
"Viognier: I had expected (purely from perception) that the “other white†I would see most of in Margaret River would be Chenin Blanc (of which I tasted 3) and Verdelho (of which I tasted one). On the other hand I ended up tasting 7 Viogniers (from Blue Poles, Cape Mentelle – including a Botrytis, Vasse Felix, Stella Bella, Evans & Tate and Xanadu). Broadly, I had similar thoughts to the Tempranillo (i.e. everyone seemed to be doing their own thing and nothing largely stood out), however I did do a bit better at finding a couple I actually liked being the Blue Poles (which was the most different to the others – which seems to be a good thing) and the Cape Mentelle."
As far as Cab Sav and Shiraz go - starting with the six wineries I went to that have a Viognier - Cape Mentelle (as mentioned) are definitely worth also visiting for Cab Sav and Shiraz, Vasse Felix had no Heytesbury and were on 06s for Cab Sav and Shiraz (so may be worth asking what they are tasting or just risking it), Stella Bella had a pretty good Shiraz and an 06 Suckfizzle Cab Sav (expensive but not great - may be good if they moved onto 07 as well), Blue Poles have Shiraz planted but have not produced one yet and don't do a Cab Sav (although interesting to taste their Reserve Merlot and Merlot Cab Franc), Evans and Tate weren't showing their best stuff (no Reserve Shiraz 05 - which has lots of awards and high ratings) and seemed a bit random with what they show (would not recommend them unless they happening to be showing the Reserves or something more exciting than when I was there) and Xanadu may be worth a visit (they have a couple of levels of Cab Savs and Shiraz) and probably them and Cape Mentelle that would best fit your three varieties of choice.
As far as just Shiraz and Cab Sav goes from other wineries. Windance Estate had very good reds and were showing three vintages of Shiraz, 1 Reserve Shiraz, 1 Reserve Cab Sav and three vintages of Cab Merlot (if they count). When I was there Woodlands were showing two vintages of their top Cab Sav - 07 looked really good, and plenty of Cab Merlots (07 Margaret, 06 Margaret and 08 standard) - so they could be a good option if showing the same wines. Voyager had their 06 Shiraz when I was there and 04 Cab Merlot and 04 Tom Price for a fee (Tom Price may give you some interest even though I was not a big fan). Leeuwin's Art Series Shiraz 07 and Art Series Cab Sav 04 were also surprisingly good (they also had a 2000 Art Series Cab Sav that was not looking too good). Brown Hill Estate had about three Cab Savs and two Shiraz to try - I actually liked their wines but thought they were quite different (I didn't know how to describe them other than very natural). Howard Park had plenty of wines to try - Lestons, Scotsdale, Abercrombies, Madfish (so heaps of Cab Sav and Shiraz) at different price ranges - a lot very good. I liked the Victory Point Cab Sav 07 (and also tasted an 05) but they require an appointment so might be a lot of effort to just try one wine. Juniper Estate (across the road from Vasse Felix) had pretty good 04 Shiraz and 05 Cab Sav open when I was there (may be good if 07 is open - as saw that Nick Stock was pretty excited about it in the Penguin Wine Guide). Lenton Brae had quite a good 08 Shiraz but unless they have moved onto the 07 Cab Sav (I had 06 when I was there) I probably would not bother with them.
Only others that may be worth a visit (that I went to) particularly for Cab Sav are:
- Cullen for the Diana Madeline 07 although want to be careful that they have it open (I needed to make a big deal to get to try it)
- Moss Wood - when I went to Moss Wood they were showing the 06 Cab Sav and and 08 barrel sample (and 8 other wines) but I understand they can be hit and miss with the wines they are showing. Also need to make an appointment here.
- Hay Shed Hill were also doing a couple of pretty good Cab Sav and Pierro a couple of Cab Merlots (wouldn't go to special efforts for these given they only fill one of the 3 varieties you are looking for). Although if you are looking to buy some cheese in Margaret River then Hay Shed Hill seems the place to go.
- Brookland Valley - although these were really Cab Merlots (although really liked 04 standard - also tasted Reserve Cab Sav 03).
Wills Domain, Saracen (neither of which impressed me much) and Cape Grace (which have a Shiraz and probably a Cab Sav by the time you will be there) are the other three wineries I went to which I would not think worth a special effort given what you are looking for (although I like Cape Grace for something different).
Re: Margaret River 09/10
Did you buy a bottle of the Cullen DM 07 after bunging on a turn to get a taste? Hope you didn't do the floor tantrum 
Re: Margaret River 09/10
I'm assuming you're already familiar with the big guns (Voyager, Vasse Felix, Leeuwin, Cape Mentelle etc) so just a couple of less common additions.
Flametree is a new kid on the block though hardly unknown since they won the Jimmy Watson last year. Definitely worth a visit - I like their wines but even if you don't it's worth seeing what the fuss is about. It's unusual in that the cellar door is actually the other side of Dunsborough on Caves Road from all the other wineries (I don't think they grow their own grapes) so might even be worth a stop on the way down from Perth assuming that's how you're arriving.
On the same subject you might want to have a look at the massive Saracen development. Personally I was shocked to see Halliday give them a 5* rating straight out of the traps but it's an impressive complex and asks a lot of questions about development of Margaret River all round. So worth forming an opinion on, I guess.
If you are stopping on the way down I'd recommend Wise for lunch - I think it's the only cellar door restaurant with an ocean view and their wines are pretty acceptable too.
You'll presumably also have Woodlands on your list - if not I'd add it, though when I was last there (in March TBF) they didn't have much available for tasting. Might be worth checking in advance.
Clairault seems to be making some good stuff - maybe not at the pinnacle at this stage but well worth a look in terms of value. It's easy to get sucked into the $50+ range in Margaret River but Clairault make more than drinkable stuff at sub $30 pretty much across the board.
Flametree is a new kid on the block though hardly unknown since they won the Jimmy Watson last year. Definitely worth a visit - I like their wines but even if you don't it's worth seeing what the fuss is about. It's unusual in that the cellar door is actually the other side of Dunsborough on Caves Road from all the other wineries (I don't think they grow their own grapes) so might even be worth a stop on the way down from Perth assuming that's how you're arriving.
On the same subject you might want to have a look at the massive Saracen development. Personally I was shocked to see Halliday give them a 5* rating straight out of the traps but it's an impressive complex and asks a lot of questions about development of Margaret River all round. So worth forming an opinion on, I guess.
If you are stopping on the way down I'd recommend Wise for lunch - I think it's the only cellar door restaurant with an ocean view and their wines are pretty acceptable too.
You'll presumably also have Woodlands on your list - if not I'd add it, though when I was last there (in March TBF) they didn't have much available for tasting. Might be worth checking in advance.
Clairault seems to be making some good stuff - maybe not at the pinnacle at this stage but well worth a look in terms of value. It's easy to get sucked into the $50+ range in Margaret River but Clairault make more than drinkable stuff at sub $30 pretty much across the board.
3, 65, 7, 50
Re: Margaret River 09/10
Most Margaret River producers are quite conservative in terms of what they plant. When you are on a good wicket etc. For emerging varietals I would look at Happs as they have just about every varietal under the sun. Mark at Blue Poles has a few interesting wines (more right field than left) and I'm sure he would be happy to show you around his place. He is also a good person to contact about other players in the non-cabernet/chardonnay scene as well. If you have time then you may want to pop into Cape Mentelle and Howard Park to taste their "Sangiovese" (Margaret River sangiovese that is) and Carnelian respectively 
cheers
Carl
cheers
Carl
Bartenders are supposed to have people skills. Or was it people are supposed to have bartending skills?
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Tim Smith
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:04 pm
- Location: Barossa Valley South Australia
- Contact:
Re: Margaret River 09/10
Some excellent advice there-I may have to extend the trip!!
Thanks all for your input, will get onto working out a plan of attack....
Cheers,
Tim
Thanks all for your input, will get onto working out a plan of attack....
Cheers,
Tim
Re: Margaret River 09/10
daz wrote:Did you buy a bottle of the Cullen DM 07 after bunging on a turn to get a taste? Hope you didn't do the floor tantrum
Hey Daz
Just realised I did not reply to this - did not buy a bottle at cellar door (knowing cellar door price was the worst you can pay) but will probably seek out a couple of bottles. In any event I have put a bit of Cullen before and was generally interested in their wines so thought I was worthy of a try (not that I necessarily think this should be the qualification criteria for whether you are worthy). To get a taste I just had to go on about how keen I was to try it and how I had bought it in the past and act like a bit of a wanker about wine - kind of thought it was unfortunate I had to act in a way I don't like to get a try (rather than just getting to try the wine because it was there and open and by showing an expression of interest).
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Michael McNally
- Posts: 2084
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:06 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Margaret River 09/10
That it was "there and open" was critical information you omitted in your original post. No wonder Daz asked if you bought some.
If that was the case and you asked to try it I am very surprised that you had to crack a spack to try it. I don't understand how a cellar door could differentiate between punters who were worthy of a taste and the unworthy (perhaps you are a very shifty looking person mf? You weren't wearing thongs were you?
)
Cheers
Michael
PS The thongs thing is a joke - people should not be judged by their footwear, stubbies or singlets.
If that was the case and you asked to try it I am very surprised that you had to crack a spack to try it. I don't understand how a cellar door could differentiate between punters who were worthy of a taste and the unworthy (perhaps you are a very shifty looking person mf? You weren't wearing thongs were you?
)Cheers
Michael
PS The thongs thing is a joke - people should not be judged by their footwear, stubbies or singlets.
Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor Hominis
Re: Margaret River 09/10
I regularly dip out on serving sizes when tasting if I go with some of my well dressed and more mature friends. I am sure they think, 'here comes another wannabee wine connassieur, I'll give him stuff all'. I have found It's defenitely worth puting on a shirt instead of a T-Shirt to get fair servings. Maybe I just look dodgy but many of the staff make assumptions based on looks. I don't get upset about it I just ask for more until I am satisfied.
P.S that reminds me I do it everyday in my line of work and I would be right on about 80% of ocassions.
P.S that reminds me I do it everyday in my line of work and I would be right on about 80% of ocassions.
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Tim Smith
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:04 pm
- Location: Barossa Valley South Australia
- Contact:
Re: Margaret River 09/10
I thought I'd get way with relaxing in shorts and t-shirt on my Xmas/New Year trip....
Re: Margaret River 09/10
Tim Smith wrote:I thought I'd get way with relaxing in shorts and t-shirt on my Xmas/New Year trip....
Mate I think you'll be right. We tasted the full monty of wines at Voyager Estate and if I remember correctly JustinB was wearing an Iron Maiden tshirt, trakky daks with a kangaroo skin Akubra no doubt adding a touch of class
Mind you Cullens cellar door is a different story!
cheers
Carl
Bartenders are supposed to have people skills. Or was it people are supposed to have bartending skills?
Re: Margaret River 09/10
Michael McNally wrote:That it was "there and open" was critical information you omitted in your original post. No wonder Daz asked if you bought some.
If that was the case and you asked to try it I am very surprised that you had to crack a spack to try it. I don't understand how a cellar door could differentiate between punters who were worthy of a taste and the unworthy (perhaps you are a very shifty looking person mf? You weren't wearing thongs were you?
Cheers
Michael
PS The thongs thing is a joke - people should not be judged by their footwear, stubbies or singlets.
Definitely would not have got them to open a bottle for me (if they were going to I probably would have told them not to). They had the last remaining parts of a bottle open (probably just enough for me) and were probably keeping it for somebody worthy (it was hidden). Even if they had have opened one for me I am not sure I would have thought this equates to an obligation to buy (I would have paid a fee to taste it - say $10 or something if that was an option). They were also keeping the Chardonnay away from me and I think there was a fairly full bottle of that. When I say I made a big deal (which was maybe not that big a deal) I did so because I had a feeling there may be a tasting available for the "right person" - so like a wanker I started talking about having tasted and bought other vintages (which is true) and having tasted the wines at certain events (which is true) (I had previously tried just saying that I was really keen to try those two wines - again true - but that got me nowhere). Thought it was a bit wanky that I needed to be wanky to get to try the wines.
I may be shifty looking but that is all natural (I don't need to wear thongs or other such "crazy" clothing to achieve this).