My votes are (only from wines ive tried im not repeating a list of wine myths and legends). All these wines just show massive breed, class, longevity and x factor:
Sauvignon Blanc - 96 Cloudy Bay, 96 Wither Hills
Chardonnay from the power with ultra finesse files....- 96 Te Mata Elston, 94 Neudorf, 97 Neudorf and Surely the 00 Neudorf will be in a while. 94 Kumeu River
Merlot - 93 Providence, (in time several 98 Hawkes Bays could make this list eg Esk)
Cabernet - 91 (98 in time) Te Mata Coleraine, 94 Stonyridge Larose, 87 Vidals, other 98 HBs could hit this list in time.
Gewurtz - 96 Dry River
Riesling - 98 Dry River Amaranth, 97 Neudorf (on current form), 99 Villa Maria Noble, 00 Pegasus Bay Aria
Syrah - Watch this space
Pinot - 94 Martinborough Reserve, 96 Dry River
Best Kiwi Wines of all Time
Re: Best Kiwi Wines of all Time
Craig(NZ) wrote:
Pinot - 94 Martinborough Reserve, 96 Dry River
96 Dry River- pinot purity in a glass with varietal balance- its a pity the subsequent vintages have moved in to dry red territory. What is your preferred out of the subsequent vintages?
Missed the 94 MR but sure I had a 96. I tried the 98 MReserve and have two left and get the feeling it is going nowhere or is in a hole. Do you have any thoughts?
Apparently no more Mart Reserves!
thanks for the notes
michel
International Chambertin Day 16th May
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Adam
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Adam
Tricky question ... if we are talking about mature wines that we have drank, then I would nominate 89 Ata Rangi Reserve Pinot, 87 Stonyridge Larose, 89 Brookfields Gold Label Cab/M, 88 St. Jerome Cab/M, 87 Te Mata Elston Chardny, 86 Babich Irongate Chardny, 90 Dry River Gwtz Selection, 89 Dry River Pinot Gris, Dry River LH Riesling 89? ... some recent wines that I think will be front rank when mature are : 00 Coleraine, 02 Pegasus Bay Rslg, 02 Felton Rd Blk 5 Pinot, 02 Dry River PN & virtually any vintage of Ata Rangi PN & TM Elston Cdny.
Re: Best Kiwi Wines of all Time
michel wrote:
Missed the 94 MR but sure I had a 96. I tried the 98 MReserve and have two left and get the feeling it is going nowhere or is in a hole. Do you have any thoughts?
Apparently no more Mart Reserves!
thanks for the notes
michel
Michel
Had the 98 MR at xmas & it was definitely too early. It drank much better a few days later. Won't touch my only other bottle for a couple of years.
Ian
Re: Best Kiwi Wines of all Time
Ian S wrote:michel wrote:
Missed the 94 MR but sure I had a 96. I tried the 98 MReserve and have two left and get the feeling it is going nowhere or is in a hole. Do you have any thoughts?
Apparently no more Mart Reserves!
thanks for the notes
michel
Michel
Had the 98 MR at xmas & it was definitely too early. It drank much better a few days later. Won't touch my only other bottle for a couple of years.
Ian
I will hold you to your word and keep my final 2 for another few years.
Upon first release I thought it was the best Pinot out of NZ except for the 96 Dry River.
michel
International Chambertin Day 16th May
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Craig(NZ).
Replies
87 Stonyridge is a legend but unfortunately it is probably the only major 87 I havent tried!!
St Jeromes....Yes the 88 is fantastic wine but I prefer the 89 and 91 above the 88. Fair comment. Some would also argue for the inclusion of St Nesbet.
Dry River Pinot. I think Dry River Pinot doesnt have a consistant style or consistant quality to make the top ranks of NZ pinot overall. However some vintages are just brilliant. My pick for the best vintage (post 95) after the 96 would be the 99.
The 02 Peg Bay Riesling is brilliant, though I think the Aria just has a bit more elegance and refinement. Other thoughts could also go to Fromm Las Strada Auslese from 00? 96 Coopers Reserve Riesling??
Elston is very consistant. Probably the most consistant of the NZ Holy Trinity of Chardonnay (KR, Neudorf and Elston). The 96 has proven to be a great keeper and a stunning wine. Other vintages may be just as good though not many are as powerful as the 96.
Mission Jewelstone has really picked up over the last couple of vintages. I particularly like the 01. Whether it reaches the levels of the elite or not is yet to be determined??
After MBV 94 and DR96 the next best pinot would have to be an Ata Rangi?? 00 perhaps???
St Jeromes....Yes the 88 is fantastic wine but I prefer the 89 and 91 above the 88. Fair comment. Some would also argue for the inclusion of St Nesbet.
Dry River Pinot. I think Dry River Pinot doesnt have a consistant style or consistant quality to make the top ranks of NZ pinot overall. However some vintages are just brilliant. My pick for the best vintage (post 95) after the 96 would be the 99.
The 02 Peg Bay Riesling is brilliant, though I think the Aria just has a bit more elegance and refinement. Other thoughts could also go to Fromm Las Strada Auslese from 00? 96 Coopers Reserve Riesling??
Elston is very consistant. Probably the most consistant of the NZ Holy Trinity of Chardonnay (KR, Neudorf and Elston). The 96 has proven to be a great keeper and a stunning wine. Other vintages may be just as good though not many are as powerful as the 96.
Mission Jewelstone has really picked up over the last couple of vintages. I particularly like the 01. Whether it reaches the levels of the elite or not is yet to be determined??
After MBV 94 and DR96 the next best pinot would have to be an Ata Rangi?? 00 perhaps???
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Craig(NZ).
00 Coleraine
ive heard 2 totally seperate people tell me within the space of a couple of weeks that they have tried the 00 Coleraine recently and it aint looking that flash.
ive tried it several times since release and I have loved it every time.
not going to open one of mine to close the debate in my own mind - got too many earlier vintages to clean up.
Talking to a guy at Te Awa farm. They do piles of comparative blind tastings there as part of the education and development among the winemaking team. One thing he did say is time after time the 98 Coleraine leaves them dumbstruck. An awesome wine with a great future it seems. Wish I had bought more -- thats the bad thing with 98, there were so many great wines vying for your ever shrinking disposable income. $$ was spread wider than usual.
ive tried it several times since release and I have loved it every time.
not going to open one of mine to close the debate in my own mind - got too many earlier vintages to clean up.
Talking to a guy at Te Awa farm. They do piles of comparative blind tastings there as part of the education and development among the winemaking team. One thing he did say is time after time the 98 Coleraine leaves them dumbstruck. An awesome wine with a great future it seems. Wish I had bought more -- thats the bad thing with 98, there were so many great wines vying for your ever shrinking disposable income. $$ was spread wider than usual.
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Craig(NZ).
Terraces
Yes fair comment to consider Terraces
Ive only tried the 94, 95 and 02 Terraces. Ive never tried the 98 or 00. In 98 there was no real need to look at $50+ wines. There were so many brilliant wines for less money.
I was a HUGE 95 Terraces fan on its release. It was stunning. The last time I tried the 95 about 18 months ago it was an excellent wine but it lacked the complexity and interest of a wine that would blow me away completely. It is the most impressive of the 3 vintages ive tried even if it isnt as big, black fruited and opulent as the 02
The 02 to me just seemed a bit cuddly, almost aussie in style (minus the oak)!! masses of fruit and texture but not the finesse and structure you would hope for - almost a bit clumsy I thought, lacking focus. Sure im being picky, but when they ask $100+ a bottle I have the right to be ultra critical!! It may well settle down. I had the same criticism of the 98 Esk Reserve when it was released, but now the structure is showing nicely.
The 94 was just plain unripe. I dont think a terraces should have been made from 94.
So Terraces 95? Maybe with a bit more time it will gain complexity. One thing is for sure it is still ascending and is a genuine long term cellar wine. I still have a couple in the cellar. They cost me $48 on release.
The $100+ it asks now just doesnt represent value for money for me.
C.
Ive only tried the 94, 95 and 02 Terraces. Ive never tried the 98 or 00. In 98 there was no real need to look at $50+ wines. There were so many brilliant wines for less money.
I was a HUGE 95 Terraces fan on its release. It was stunning. The last time I tried the 95 about 18 months ago it was an excellent wine but it lacked the complexity and interest of a wine that would blow me away completely. It is the most impressive of the 3 vintages ive tried even if it isnt as big, black fruited and opulent as the 02
The 02 to me just seemed a bit cuddly, almost aussie in style (minus the oak)!! masses of fruit and texture but not the finesse and structure you would hope for - almost a bit clumsy I thought, lacking focus. Sure im being picky, but when they ask $100+ a bottle I have the right to be ultra critical!! It may well settle down. I had the same criticism of the 98 Esk Reserve when it was released, but now the structure is showing nicely.
The 94 was just plain unripe. I dont think a terraces should have been made from 94.
So Terraces 95? Maybe with a bit more time it will gain complexity. One thing is for sure it is still ascending and is a genuine long term cellar wine. I still have a couple in the cellar. They cost me $48 on release.
The $100+ it asks now just doesnt represent value for money for me.
C.
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Michael
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Craig(NZ).
I havent tried the 98 Terraces but know its pretty close to the 02 in style. Most people I know that tried the 98 Terraces commented that the 98 reserve was way better value and 2x+ of them was the way to sink your $$. Thats the problem with me...I seem to now look at value for money above absolute quality (I know we are discussing absolute quality on this thread but my 'policy' affects what i taste to an extent).
There are others that competed in that tier from 98 such as Redmetal 'The Merlot' ($90), Selini EV($90), Clearview BP($90), Te Awa Zone 20 Cab($65) and the likes etc which are no doubt special wines. Plenty of wineries made special one off wines from 98. Montana has Tom ($90) etc
Another wine worth a mention is the Vidals Solar Cab from 98. So Hawkes Bay in style and so 98. I really like it actually except for the $90 price tag.
But this speaks volumes: - 98 Coleraine MAGNUMS were $99. Now you might understand why my experience the other wines above is a little light!!
In 1998 there was no reason at all to spend $50+ You could buy Brookfields reserve, Vidals reserve, Unison Selection, Esk Reserve, te Awa Boundary, Clearview reserves, Lombardi, Church road Reserve, Delegats Reserve, Coleraine, Awatea etc etc.....all under $50 and all excellent wines. Some were as good as you will get.
Oh for another vintage like that!!
There are others that competed in that tier from 98 such as Redmetal 'The Merlot' ($90), Selini EV($90), Clearview BP($90), Te Awa Zone 20 Cab($65) and the likes etc which are no doubt special wines. Plenty of wineries made special one off wines from 98. Montana has Tom ($90) etc
Another wine worth a mention is the Vidals Solar Cab from 98. So Hawkes Bay in style and so 98. I really like it actually except for the $90 price tag.
But this speaks volumes: - 98 Coleraine MAGNUMS were $99. Now you might understand why my experience the other wines above is a little light!!
In 1998 there was no reason at all to spend $50+ You could buy Brookfields reserve, Vidals reserve, Unison Selection, Esk Reserve, te Awa Boundary, Clearview reserves, Lombardi, Church road Reserve, Delegats Reserve, Coleraine, Awatea etc etc.....all under $50 and all excellent wines. Some were as good as you will get.
Oh for another vintage like that!!
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JamieBahrain
- Posts: 3754
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:40 am
- Location: Fragrant Harbour.
hi craig,
if money was no object i feel the 98 terraces is another level up from the 98 coleraine. it has that extra bit of intensity and complexity. of coz it was never going to be twice as good! one would be lucky to get another 10% of quality (if quality can be gauged) when you go from the $50 price point to $100.
but then i am digressing into the debate of which is the best 98 NZ red
cheers
eddie
if money was no object i feel the 98 terraces is another level up from the 98 coleraine. it has that extra bit of intensity and complexity. of coz it was never going to be twice as good! one would be lucky to get another 10% of quality (if quality can be gauged) when you go from the $50 price point to $100.
but then i am digressing into the debate of which is the best 98 NZ red
cheers
eddie
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JamieBahrain
- Posts: 3754
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:40 am
- Location: Fragrant Harbour.
Oh dear. I knew it was an odd numbered vintage. Must have been the 95 and came in a nice wooden box.
You are going to tell me that Esk Valley isn't that nice cellar door north of the bay!
Half a bottle of riesling or sauvignon blanc with lunch. Completed lunch with a glass of red from the bottle to be drunk with dinner and lovely local cheese-then an afternoon of tasting.
That was my NZ wine holiday, which seems to have adversely affected my memory!
Re: Replies
Craig(NZ). wrote:87 Stonyridge is a legend but unfortunately it is probably the only major 87 I havent tried!!
Craig (and everyone else),
What vintages of Stonyridge have you tried? Anything remotely current? Is the '02 going to be a blockbuster given the reputation of the vintage nation wide? How would I go about sourcing some Larose museum stock? Are you a member of their mailing list?
Cheers,
Max
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Avant d’être bon, un vin doit être vrai
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Avant d’être bon, un vin doit être vrai
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Craig(NZ).
stonyridge
Max
Jeez I hardly remember even writing this post, wheredya dig it up from?
Stonyridge Larose:
Ive tried the 93,94,96,97,99,00 and 01
The 94 is the best, then 96 and 99 are my favs
97 was a surprsingly good wine, 00 was quite chunky for a stonyridge, 01 very dark and classy but not as big as most vintages.
Im not a memeber of the mailing list. I have bought the odd single bottle here and there but havent got a cellar full. I find coleraine better value, though perhaps larose is a little sexier esp vintages like 96,99
The odd shop around has back vintages but perhaps auction is the best place to buy it. most vintages come up monthly
C
Jeez I hardly remember even writing this post, wheredya dig it up from?
Stonyridge Larose:
Ive tried the 93,94,96,97,99,00 and 01
The 94 is the best, then 96 and 99 are my favs
97 was a surprsingly good wine, 00 was quite chunky for a stonyridge, 01 very dark and classy but not as big as most vintages.
Im not a memeber of the mailing list. I have bought the odd single bottle here and there but havent got a cellar full. I find coleraine better value, though perhaps larose is a little sexier esp vintages like 96,99
The odd shop around has back vintages but perhaps auction is the best place to buy it. most vintages come up monthly
C
Craig
Another wine to add to the list is Hunters Oak Aged Sauvignon Blanc Hunters have been making this style of wine since the early 80's when its was known as Hunters Fume Blanc Sauvignon but was forced to change its name as the our dear french friends claimed the right to only use that term to describe their wines.
Pegasus Bay make a similar wine but they appear to have a higher content of semillon in it and it does give it different flavor.
Another wine to add to the list is Hunters Oak Aged Sauvignon Blanc Hunters have been making this style of wine since the early 80's when its was known as Hunters Fume Blanc Sauvignon but was forced to change its name as the our dear french friends claimed the right to only use that term to describe their wines.
Pegasus Bay make a similar wine but they appear to have a higher content of semillon in it and it does give it different flavor.
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Craig(NZ).
Hunters
Geoff I agree it is a 'classic' wine, but is it really one of the highest quality wines ever produced in NZ??
It is a style of wine that is less and less in favour these days - as fashionable as medium sherry
I remember the 1996 Delegats Proprietors Reserve Sauvignon Blanc as one of the most amazing wines of that style ever made in NZ.
The following vintage, Delegats in their wisdom decided to discontinue it. it hasnt been made since
Perhaps the decision was made by the same person who decided to close their cellar door at Henderson, which I believe was the best cellar door experience in NZ
Obviously a bean counter, not a marketer.
C.
It is a style of wine that is less and less in favour these days - as fashionable as medium sherry
I remember the 1996 Delegats Proprietors Reserve Sauvignon Blanc as one of the most amazing wines of that style ever made in NZ.
The following vintage, Delegats in their wisdom decided to discontinue it. it hasnt been made since
Perhaps the decision was made by the same person who decided to close their cellar door at Henderson, which I believe was the best cellar door experience in NZ
Obviously a bean counter, not a marketer.
C.