Wine at Langtons Exchange

[sauce]

Just wondering if anyone has wine on exchange (for sale) in Melbourne - I do, and just noted online they have put all of it the next auction.

Is this the case with anyone else??

thanks

[ufo]

Just wondering if anyone has wine on exchange (for sale) in Melbourne - I do, and just noted online they have put all of it the next auction.

Is this the case with anyone else??

thanks

I don't have any stock at Langtons now but had some a few months back. Even though I did not instruct them to do so, they kept moving my stock between auction and exchange until it was sold. I wasn't too happy about it since they never asked for my consent.

[sauce]

Thanks Ufo

Yes that is probably my biggest issue - I would have got an email next week that I would probaly just ignored. I know they have the discretion but I am talking about 5 dozen bottles, so I would have liked a call or an email to say it was happening, not a message to say it is done.

Communciation is too automated and imperssonal - will only get worse I fear under Woolworths.

Time to look at alternatives

[ufo]

Thanks Ufo

Yes that is probably my biggest issue - I would have got an email next week that I would probaly just ignored. I know they have the discretion but I am talking about 5 dozen bottles, so I would have liked a call or an email to say it was happening, not a message to say it is done.

Communciation is too automated and imperssonal - will only get worse I fear under Woolworths.

Time to look at alternatives

Well, it is not just informing the customer, it is also auction and exchange are totally different concepts. At exchange, the item is sold on a fixed price whereas in auction theoretically there is no upper limit and if it is a sought after item, it can fetch good money. I was very upset when they did this to my 1999 Greenock Creek Roennfeldt Shiraz. I listed it on the auction with a reserve. It just disappeared suddenly from the auction list long before auction close date/time. Received no information from them. When I called them, they said “There was a demand from a customer on exchange site so they sold it to that customer based on my reserve price” and they assumed I would be happy because it was sold at the reserve price. I did expressed my disappointment but the deal was already done and there was no way to go back. After the auction was over, they moved some of my items to exchange again without my consent and listed them on the reserve price. I again contacted them and they just said that they have better chance of selling at the exchange site. Some got sold there but later on they moved unsold items back to auction. At that point I didn’t bother to contact them and just let them do whatever they do. All stock is sold now and I don’t think I will be doing business with them again. Just for the record I was a very good customer for them, sold tens of thousands of dollars of wine in past a few years through them

[Brucer]

Yup, I have the same problem. They move wine from auctions to the exchange. I sent them an email telling them not too move my wine to the exchange. This was ignored, and they did exactly what I told them not to do. I sent an email to the manager complaining bitterly, and that was ignored. I suppose a phone call to Calliard is next, before I find another auction house. I have sold tens of thousands of dollars of wine with them, and this is the way a good client is treated, very poor!
Bruce

[orpheus]

This conduct is totally unacceptable.

In particular, I think there is a real question mark over transferring wine to the Exchange site without permission at the request of a purchaser, at the reserve price.

Their duty, I would have thought, was to the seller, and to obtain the highest price for the seller. They owe no duty to the buyer, other than not to misrepresent what is being sold, and to supply the goods purchased.

Very unsatisfactory.

[ufo]

This conduct is totally unacceptable.

In particular, I think there is a real question mark over transferring wine to the Exchange site without permission at the request of a purchaser, at the reserve price.

Their duty, I would have thought, was to the seller, and to obtain the highest price for the seller. They owe no duty to the buyer, other than not to misrepresent what is being sold, and to supply the goods purchased.

Very unsatisfactory.

Totally agreed. I think what they did with my Roennfeldt Shiraz is some sort of an insider job. I don't think they normaly accept buyer rquests for the exchange side of their business. But in general, they think they have no duty to anybody at all. All they care is that item to be sold. I even had a personal discussion with Andrew Caillard on this issue and even though he did not directly express it, what he was basically saying was that all Langtons care about is the sale and full stop. I don't know when they started it but now they got a policy that one has to bring the reserve to their house reserve if the wine is not sold in three auctions. I did that and wine wasn't sold again then they asked me to bring the reserve to even lower figure which I refused. Eventually it got sold at the house reserve which was a loss for me.

[sauce]

Pleased to hear i'm not the only one with an issue here - I agreed this morning to allow the wine to go to auction but only on the proviso that I could set reserves for some wines outside their reserve limits.

[ufo]

Pleased to hear i'm not the only one with an issue here - I agreed this morning to allow the wine to go to auction but only on the proviso that I could set reserves for some wines outside their reserve limits.

Only way they will let you set reserves outside of their limits is lower than their house reserve.

[sauce]

Not true - otherwise I would have brought my wine home

[ufo]

Not true - otherwise I would have brought my wine home

So they let you set reserves higher than their reserve limits? I.e. their range is between $100-120 and they let you set something higher than $120 ?

[orpheus]

Not true - otherwise I would have brought my wine home

So they let you set reserves higher than their reserve limits? I.e. their range is between $100-120 and they let you set something higher than $120 ?

Well UFO, it is the seller's wine after all. You don't agree to sell your house at auction on the basis of whatever the real estate agent decides the reserve should be, do you?

[ufo]

Not true - otherwise I would have brought my wine home

So they let you set reserves higher than their reserve limits? I.e. their range is between $100-120 and they let you set something higher than $120 ?

Well UFO, it is the seller's wine after all. You don't agree to sell your house at auction on the basis of whatever the real estate agent decides the reserve should be, do you?

Well, I just asked a question !

[orpheus]

Not true - otherwise I would have brought my wine home

So they let you set reserves higher than their reserve limits? I.e. their range is between $100-120 and they let you set something higher than $120 ?

Well UFO, it is the seller's wine after all. You don't agree to sell your house at auction on the basis of whatever the real estate agent decides the reserve should be, do you?

Well, I just asked a question !

Fair enough I thought I detected a tone of incredulity, but that is the peril of text.

[sauce]

yes ufo - your example is almost perfect. I had them over ride the mid reserve limit - not sure they will want that publicised.

[Brucer]

I had a long conversation with Langtons today.
They apologised to me for moving my wine to the exchange,when I asked it not be done. My request had to be manually overided, which was overlooked. My second request was actioned, and a reply to me was overlooked again. I have received an apology for that also.
It was also stated that they are still run autonomously from Woolworths, and in no way do they move wine to the exchange to benefit Woolworths, as has been suggested to me.
They have a problem with sellers asking to put reserve prices on wine which is higher then the market will handle, which leads to slow sales. Some buyers simply want to pay the reserve price at the exchange, rather then in a bidding situation in an auction. It was stated that bidders bid for a wine for the duration of an auction, but still dont win the auction because their bid still does not reach the reserve, which is aften set too high.
I usually dropped my reserve after the first auction if it didnt sell, if I thought a lower price would make a sale. After all, I send my wine to auction for it to sell, and obviously for the highest price that I can get. But someone has to be willing to pay my reserve.
So, in all, I have accepted their version of events.
I suppose Langtons could be a good storage facility if reserves were set unrealistically high.

[DaveB]

High reserves are always a problem in wine auctions...you can't move the price estimates because that is what the market is willing to pay and auction bidders are savvy enough to know where the house reserve will sit so they fish around that point until it becomes obvious that the reserve is over the low estimate and then they will stop.

There is nothing wrong with giving it a crack with a higher estimate for an auction or two but after that you are better off at low estimate or with the house...they are not a storage facility after all

[Shiraz Man]

Nothing surprises me with Langtons.

A few years ago I auctioned off a dozen bottles of wine, and thought I was going to get a certain amount of money when it sold at auction. When I got the cheque in the mail it was a fraction of what I was expecting. When I queried it I was told the buyer ruturned 9 of bottles as they were not happy with the wine. Thus I only got paid for 3 bottles. I then retorted by asking them where on their website does it say that customers can return bottles if they are not happy with them. They did not have any answer to this.

This bad experience has totally put me off using Langtons again.

[monghead]

This all sounds pretty appalling!

I guess the bottom line for Langtons is not so much taking care of the buyers or sellers, but really, themselves, hitting us all 15% either way. A 30% profit on each transaction, and the yearly fees... No wonder Woolworths was keen to take them over

[Red Bigot]

This all sounds pretty appalling!

I guess the bottom line for Langtons is not so much taking care of the buyers or sellers, but really, themselves, hitting us all 15% either way. A 30% profit on each transaction, and the yearly fees... No wonder Woolworths was keen to take them over

I have never paid annual fees. If you intend to buy/sell ask them nicely and they will waive the annual fee. Or at least they used to pre-Woolworths.

[DaveB]

This all sounds pretty appalling!

I guess the bottom line for Langtons is not so much taking care of the buyers or sellers, but really, themselves, hitting us all 15% either way. A 30% profit on each transaction, and the yearly fees... No wonder Woolworths was keen to take them over

I have never paid annual fees. If you intend to buy/sell ask them nicely and they will waive the annual fee. Or at least they used to pre-Woolworths.

If you are selling wine the annual fee's should be waived

[rooman]

Nothing surprises me with Langtons.

A few years ago I auctioned off a dozen bottles of wine, and thought I was going to get a certain amount of money when it sold at auction. When I got the cheque in the mail it was a fraction of what I was expecting. When I queried it I was told the buyer ruturned 9 of bottles as they were not happy with the wine. Thus I only got paid for 3 bottles. I then retorted by asking them where on their website does it say that customers can return bottles if they are not happy with them. They did not have any answer to this.

This bad experience has totally put me off using Langtons again.

If the wine is faulty, I believe Langtons did the correct thing. I purchased a case of chardonnay recently. The entire case was off, I am guessing due to poor storage. I called them up and said they can either refund me the money or I can sell it to some other smuck at auction which I stressed was not my preferred option. Quite correctly, they asked me to bring the wine in, they tested and agreed with the assessment and refunded me the purchase price.

If people are going to sell faulty wine then this is the best way to keep the intregrity of the site. In doing so, we all benefit. Obviously faulty is different to not liking a style of wine.

[TORB]

Rooman,

Interesting points you guys have raised. However if poses more questions than it answers.

Lets take the case of Brett for example. If a wine is laden with it, then is is faulty or the way it was meant to be?

Personally, IMO if you buy "used" goods at auction, IMO the risk should be the purchasers.

Another example. Person A buys a case at Langtons from person B and stores it professionally for 3 years and decides to sell it through Langtons. Person C buys it and discovers it is cactus and wants to return it. Person B is long gone and as A has stored the wine professionally, why should they cop the loss? For all we know, the wine could have been heat affected between the winery and the retailer.

This situation has many, many pitfalls and is a minefield of potential problems.

Its only a matter of time before someone who has his money deducted will wind up taking action against Langtons, or threatens to, and Langtons caves and coughs up.

[orpheus]

Can't entirely agree with this Torb, sorry.

It is complicated. If a wine says "mid shoulder" or "low shoulder", or if it is very old, then of course you take your chances. I would imagine that the condition of the bottle would be factored in by most bidders, so the price would be good.

On the other hand, if there is no such notation and the wine is not out of its normal drinking window, I think that the goods sold should be "fit for purpose", ie, drinking.

I think you are well within your rights to send it back, and it is not to the point that the seller was not aware of the fault, nor responsible for the fault.

I think that Langtons do the right thing by the sellers in the long-run by taking wine back, because it encourages people to bid with confidence.

Of course, some people will consider a wine faulty when it is not. However, there won't be many.

Having said that, I've never sent wine back, but that's because 1.) It has never been absolutely undrinkable, and 2.) I tend not to consider it worth the trouble, whether I've bought it retail or at auction.

Rooman,

Interesting points you guys have raised. However if poses more questions than it answers.

Lets take the case of Brett for example. If a wine is laden with it, then is is faulty or the way it was meant to be?

Personally, IMO if you buy "used" goods at auction, IMO the risk should be the purchasers.

Another example. Person A buys a case at Langtons from person B and stores it professionally for 3 years and decides to sell it through Langtons. Person C buys it and discovers it is cactus and wants to return it. Person B is long gone and as A has stored the wine professionally, why should they cop the loss? For all we know, the wine could have been heat affected between the winery and the retailer.

This situation has many, many pitfalls and is a minefield of potential problems.

Its only a matter of time before someone who has his money deducted will wind up taking action against Langtons, or threatens to, and Langtons caves and coughs up.

[rooman]

orpheus

I am with you. Given we can not see the wine as we are buying on line, Langtons and other houses need to maintain the intregity of the system so that buyers have confidence. In case the wine had clearly been "cooked". And I only got a credit for the unopened wine I returned. Consequently Langtons could return the wine to seller and he is no worse off.

I also agree with the fit for purpose argument.

Mark

[Shiraz Man]

Rooman wrote:

If the wine is faulty, I believe Langtons did the correct thing. I purchased a case of chardonnay recently. The entire case was off, I am guessing due to poor storage. I called them up and said they can either refund me the money or I can sell it to some other smuck at auction which I stressed was not my preferred option. Quite correctly, they asked me to bring the wine in, they tested and agreed with the assessment and refunded me the purchase price.

Rooman I don'y have an issue if Langton's believed the wine was faulty, but they should advise vendors that they reserve the right to take back wines they believe are faulty. In my situation they actioned off the rest of the 9 bottles, so clearly they did not think the entire case was faulty. The point is their customer service is a joke.

[orpheus]

Rooman wrote:

If the wine is faulty, I believe Langtons did the correct thing. I purchased a case of chardonnay recently. The entire case was off, I am guessing due to poor storage. I called them up and said they can either refund me the money or I can sell it to some other smuck at auction which I stressed was not my preferred option. Quite correctly, they asked me to bring the wine in, they tested and agreed with the assessment and refunded me the purchase price.

Rooman I don'y have an issue if Langton's believed the wine was faulty, but they should advise vendors that they reserve the right to take back wines they believe are faulty. In my situation they actioned off the rest of the 9 bottles, so clearly they did not think the entire case was faulty. The point is their customer service is a joke.

Shiraz Man, you neatly illustrate the dilemma for Langton's when you say their customer service is a joke, which is "who is their customer?" Both buyer and seller pay them for their service.

If the wines were reauctioned, then you received your money anyway, I assume, though perhaps it was a lower price?

[sauce]

Further to my original post I now find 2 lots scheduled to go to auction tonight have been presold. Guess what price... my reserve

Two issues - who has access to the list presale and how to they know the reserve.

This is not a price issue - it obviously met my reserve , but where was the discussion about my loss to a potentially higher price at auction.

Don't worry about going through auction just ring up a few days earlier

[Brucer]

sauce. If thats the case, you should ring Tamara in Melbourne, and see what she has to say about it. She alleviated my current fears, as I mentioned earlier.
B

[sauce]

Hi Brucer

yes had long chat with Tamara yesterday and issue sorted, like you a computer/personell issue.

So happy for now, but will still be keeping close eye on my exchange stock