Cellar door wine temperatures

[Lee]

I've noticed on our last few trips the apparent slackness in wine serving temperatures at some cellar doors.... Recently we tried a young semillon at one of the Hunters icon wineries, must have been approaching 30 degrees C, really made it taste like what I imagine feline urine is like! Not as bad, but annoying, is whites served at near freezing temp!
Some cellar doors go to very expensive lengths to promote themselves, then let ther product down for lack of a couple of wine fridges???

[monghead]

Hmmm....

Cat's pee at close to body temp. urghhh... Shudder to think...

I guess too cold is much less of a problem, can always heat it up in the palm of your hand.

Another pet peeve at CD tastings are wines served that are obviously oxidised from 2-3 days since opening.

[pokolbinguy]

Recently we tried a young semillon at one of the Hunters icon wineries

I'm pretty sure I know which CD you are talking about and unfortunatley you are not the 1st person to comment on this and won't be the last.

I don't suppose the CD you are talking about is on McDonald's Road?

[Lee]

Recently we tried a young semillon at one of the Hunters icon wineries

I don't suppose the CD you are talking about is on McDonald's Road?

Yep.....

[pokolbinguy]

Recently we tried a young semillon at one of the Hunters icon wineries

I don't suppose the CD you are talking about is on McDonald's Road?

Yep.....

Thought so...I must say that has to be there own downfall. Now I can appreciated white wines at room temp...unfortunatley alot of people cant and it doesnt help the wine that is for sure...and they need to understand that. O well...one day they may change.

[Eboracum]

30°C is 10° too warm for ANY wine, white, red or pink. Here in Europe it is far commoner to have whites served numbed by excessive cold and reds so warm (22°+) as to become heavy and dull.


It seems that the majority of consumers except wine geeks like it like that. However, in some areas with cool natural cellars, the reds and whites are both offered for tasting at about 12-13° which is perfect for the latter but which necessitates some cradling for the former.

[monghead]

Awww, come on guys, spill the beans.

Is it Brokenwood???

On that note, may be going to the Hunter soon. Anything new/exciting?

Cheers,

Monghead.

[Partagas]

Pierro do the same with their great Chardy. Been to cellar door about 5 times and never enjoyed it. Luckily for them (and me) I have drunk the wine on other occasions chilled and was absolutely awesome. Don't get it????? I do know that good whites can/should be consumed only slightly chilled, but have never appreciated Chardonnay this way. Sav Blanc not so bad. 30 deg never going to be good.

[Daryl Douglas]

I chill all whites and reds direct from the wine coolers go in the fridge after opening. In summer, even in the aircon, it gets back to the in-room ambient temperature of 22C or so over the 30-60 mins I take to drink a glass. In winter I sometimes leave a bottle of red on the bench at night but any remainder goes in the fridge. Max temp here is still getting up to 27C+, the sub-20C temps mostly don't happen until after the average sleepy time time.

daz

[Eboracum]

I do know that good whites can/should be consumed only slightly chilled, but have never appreciated Chardonnay this way.

Fine white Burgundy, particularly when mature (if Premox is avoided), loses most of its aromas and complexity below about 13°, IMHO. I don't have enough experience of Aussie Chard to know whether it would behave the same way for me.

[monghead]

I do know that good whites can/should be consumed only slightly chilled, but have never appreciated Chardonnay this way.

Fine white Burgundy, particularly when mature (if Premox is avoided), loses most of its aromas and complexity below about 13°, IMHO. I don't have enough experience of Aussie Chard to know whether it would behave the same way for me.

Agreed, but the ambient temp here is 20-25 degrees in autumn/spring, and 30 degrees in summer, thus almost imperetive to chill most whites served almost all year round.

[Eboracum]

I do know that good whites can/should be consumed only slightly chilled, but have never appreciated Chardonnay this way.

Fine white Burgundy, particularly when mature (if Premox is avoided), loses most of its aromas and complexity below about 13°, IMHO. I don't have enough experience of Aussie Chard to know whether it would behave the same way for me.

Agreed, but the ambient temp here is 20-25 degrees in autumn/spring, and 30 degrees in summer, thus almost imperetive to chill most whites served almost all year round.

If it were me, reds as well to get them to around 18°.

[Lee]

I've always chilled reds (an hour or so in the fridge) before serving in Australia - really a necessity in most parts of the country most of the year I think. Even better just grab from the cooled cellar/fridge! Never been served a warm red at a cellar door though..... plenty of warm reds at restaurants though....

[Waiters Friend]

Pierro do the same with their great Chardy. Been to cellar door about 5 times and never enjoyed it. Luckily for them (and me) I have drunk the wine on other occasions chilled and was absolutely awesome. Don't get it????? I do know that good whites can/should be consumed only slightly chilled, but have never appreciated Chardonnay this way. Sav Blanc not so bad. 30 deg never going to be good.

The subject of wine service at cellar door obviously raises some ire, heckles and comment. Having been a cellar door person for a while (now happily retired from that game) I must admit to being conscious of temperatures, especially in (on occasions) very warm WA conditions.

The cellar door I worked for (on weekends, when the volume of traffic is) keeps a couple of chrome circular sinks built into the bar. This winery specialises to some degree in sparkling wine, so the cooling (i.e. fill the sink up with ice and place the bottles from the fridge in it) is probably warranted. The bubblies do well in these condiions.

Whites - well, we might have been serving them a tad cold, but it's probably offset by the volume coming through, so again, being on ice was really only offsetting the daily temps. The cellar door is airconditioned, but more for the customers that the bar area.

Reds. On a hot day in summer, I would routinely fridge the reds in between customers. In the Swan Valley, we are not talking about cool climate reds anyway, and the heat accentuates the alcohol, while boiling off (to some degree) the aroma profiles you describe (in the cellar door write ups).

Partagas, I've not been to Pierro's cellar door for well over a decade. When I procure their Chardonnay, it's treated with the respect due, and it has only once let me down (cork)

Why waste a $70 wine by serving it too cold? Or conversely, serving reds too warm?

Cheers

Allan

[Partagas]

Hi Allan,

Yes as mentioned I do understand there is a reason behind the temperature they serve the Chardy at, but it has just never sat well with me (don't enjoy). This was also shared amongst friends of mine who were there at the time and also others I have spoken with about their experience. I’ve had their chardonnay on many occasions away from cellar door and for me is up there with the very best (as you mentioned never disappointed). So my conclusion is they are not doing themselves justice by the way they serve their flagship wine especially to newcomers. Maybe it is just a bit off the mark, from memory I think at times it was not chilled at all. Maybe it’s the acid that stands out a bit more, will have to try the theory again and analyse. Pierro is still awesome.

Sam

[Waiters Friend]

Hi Allan,

Yes as mentioned I do understand there is a reason behind the temperature they serve the Chardy at, but it has just never sat well with me (don't enjoy). This was also shared amongst friends of mine who were there at the time and also others I have spoken with about their experience. I’ve had their chardonnay on many occasions away from cellar door and for me is up there with the very best (as you mentioned never disappointed). So my conclusion is they are not doing themselves justice by the way they serve their flagship wine especially to newcomers. Maybe it is just a bit off the mark, from memory I think at times it was not chilled at all. Maybe it’s the acid that stands out a bit more, will have to try the theory again and analyse. Pierro is still awesome.

Sam

Sam, it is possible they are over-reacting to the temperature issue ("Don't serve my prize-winning Chardonnay too cold or the punters will not appreciate the carefully crafted flavour profile") and therefore serving it too warm for some or most of their potential customers. Without visiting their cellar door again, I don't know, but I can understand their rationale for doing so, even if I don't fully agree with it.

Have you ever had a Montrachet at (French) room temperature (i.e. around 16')? Perhaps that's what the good Dr Peterkin is aspiring to.

For me, if it sells the wine, then 'job done'.

Cheers

Allan