Save this amazing forest ... uncork a bottle of wine!!!!

[Almaviva]

Need a few good reasons why we need to keep the cork in stead of a metal screw-top cap???

Follow the link & read on:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -wine.html

[Davo]

This rubbish has been doing the rounds for several years now. The cork forrests by and large are in areas that are not useful for any other agricultural purposes, being either to stony or hilly. The cork used for bottle closures is less than 4% of the cork harvested, most going to industrial uses, it is just that this 4% is the most valuable.

If cork stopped being used as closures for wine bottles tomorrow the cork forrests would remain.

[winetastic]

Sounds like a press release disguised as an "article" to me.

[Loztralia]

As a British expat I would counsel people not to believe a single word written in the racist gutter rag that is the Daily Mail, a paper with a proud tradition of supporting fascism.

[Red Bigot]

Need a few good reasons why we need to keep the cork in stead of a metal screw-top cap???

Not really. There are a few good reasons to use cork for some wines, but not many and I prefer scewcap for most of my reds these days, or diam rather than natural cork. Certainly not the crap in this article.

[pstarr]

For an example of how not to try for a viral advertising campaign on the benefits of natural cork, I recommend having a look at the "Save Miguel" video on YouTube and elsewhere.

[Daryl Douglas]

Save the PLANTATIONS?? What was there before human intervention? For example, palm sugar plantations in asia? The cork trees will just end up turning feral and get cut down to make way for urban development as the wine world inexorably moves to screwcaps, far and away more reliable seals for wine, especially reds it seems to me.

There's nothing more disappointing, deflating, than opening a treasured bottle of red ($80), personally stored, cossetted for at least 5 years, to discover it's a tca playground. Except, that is, opening a two year old(from vintage) red ($50) to find it rampant with tca.

I don't give a rat's about the cork industry's protestations, in whatever form it chooses to present them. It's virtually ensured it's own demise by supplying, at least in Australia, a defective product.

These days, if a wine is cork-sealed, I tend not to buy, regardless of reputation.

[Waiters Friend]

Daz

To an extent I agree with you. Without re-entering the entire pro - cork / anti - cork debate, I must admit that I am starting to think twice before buying a wine under cork. I was quite happy to buy my annual case of Elizabeth Semillon (2003) under screwcap this year.

I still have a couple of my winemaker friends in my ear about cork, and they still see it as the preferred ageing medium for icon wines, with reservation (Cullen DM, for example). I remain unconvinced, but acknowledge that the wines have to be properly prepared for bottling under anything.

In general, however, I am quite happy to see the cork industry meet its demise.

Cheers

Allan

[Daryl Douglas]

I've had some dodgy cork-sealed Elizabeths in the past, may have been a factor in my developing a preference for riesling as a dry white, helped along by some searingly acidic young Hunter sems from the Hunter Valley Wine Society (only bought one case). I did have three cork-sealed Tahbilk rieslings from the same vintage replaced a few years ago. One was obviously tca-affected, the other two just not typical. Actually, the email I sent to John was predominantly about the obviously corked bottle but did mention that the other two I'd tried seemed suspect.

Austalian and NZ wines increasingly are screwcapped at all levels, budget to premium, even super-premium in some cases. Speaks for itself in my opinion. DCB may decry it, deny the reality that cork is a less reliable seal but the runs are on the board for me - and screwcaps.

Jeez, even the venerable James Halliday seems to be an advocate of screwcaps these days. If that doesn't speak volumes..... just try to imagine the number of corked and oxidized wines he's had the displeasure to encounter over many years, due to the inadequacies of cork. He's now publishing TNs of 100 wines per month on his website and few are cork-sealed. If they are, mostly diam seals are used these days for the "pop" effect.

So, yes, I'll enter the debate, if it still exists. The romance of cork is a fallacy, especially when the cork crumbles, breaks during the process of opening an older wine, then when access to the contents of the bottle is finally achieved, it needs to be poured through a fine-mesh strainer but there are still particles of cork dust floating on the surface of the wine in the glass. There's no "pop", just the tedious process that follows.

"Natural" cork is a fallacy. Cork wine seals are heavily chemically treated in attempting to eliminate tca but that doesn't work in about 5% or more of corks. The argument that cork allows miniscule amounts of air to pass through it to enhance the aging of a wine seems ridiculous, especially when corks that aren't carriers of trychloroanisol fail, allow the ingress of too much air, the result a bottle of vinegar. To me it seems that winemakers prefer to use an anaerobic seal, a perfect cork for those who still use them, to protect their wines from premature development. The rest is romance.

Cheers

daz

[KMP]

This "amazing" forest is simply being used by cork manufacturers to help keep them in business, and even has its own web site. It was the focus of a recent online ad campaign using American comedian and actor Rob Schneider - see the web site. Part of the campaign was a letter to winemakers from cork maker Amorim extolling the ethical virtues of cork. Even the Australian Girl Guides were recruited.

I think we would all agree that the cork industry has the right to exist. But the cynical use of the environment to further your cause is a little too much.

Mike

[orpheus]

This "amazing" forest is simply being used by cork manufacturers to help keep them in business, and even has its own web site. It was the focus of a recent online ad campaign using American comedian and actor Rob Schneider - see the web site. Part of the campaign was a letter to winemakers from cork maker Amorim extolling the ethical virtues of cork. Even the Australian Girl Guides were recruited.

I think we would all agree that the cork industry has the right to exist. But the cynical use of the environment to further your cause is a little too much.

Mike

Agreed, Mike. I remember that the campaign manager was reported as openly saying "If we had to win the battle to preserve cork by logical argument, we would lose, so we have to play on the emotions".

If I were the cork industry, I would have immediately sacked him for such a cynical statement.

They were wandering around Sydney with "Save Miguel" on their shirts. A ridiculous campaign.

Far better to ensure the quality of the product and find prominent wine-makers who can articulate a reason to use cork. (Are there any left?)

[orpheus]

Need a few good reasons why we need to keep the cork in stead of a metal screw-top cap???

Not really. There are a few good reasons to use cork for some wines, but not many and I prefer scewcap for most of my reds these days, or diam rather than natural cork. Certainly not the crap in this article.

Brian, what do you think the few good reasons are, and when would they apply?

[GraemeG]

I'm a big fan of cork. Gaskets, floor tiles, placemats - there's a wide range of suitable uses.
Not for sealing wine bottles, obviously.
Sure, no-one knows if a screwcap would have kept a 45 Mouton or 78 La Tache in the way the best corks have. But that's about it as far as reservations go.
I opened a lightly-corked 2006 Jaboulet 'Parallele 45' Cotes-du-Rhone the other day. What the hell's a wine like that still doing under cork?
There's plenty of demand for cork from non-wine related uses.
Sorry if it's not quite so profitable as the old monopoly on wine corks used to be. But that's what happens to monopolies - they get slack, inefficient and start treating their customers like dirt. When an alternative does finally come along, is it any wonder customers react the way they do?
cheers,
Graeme

[orpheus]

I'm a big fan of cork. Gaskets, floor tiles, placemats - there's a wide range of suitable uses.
Not for sealing wine bottles, obviously.
Sure, no-one knows if a screwcap would have kept a 45 Mouton or 78 La Tache in the way the best corks have. But that's about it as far as reservations go.
I opened a lightly-corked 2006 Jaboulet 'Parallele 45' Cotes-du-Rhone the other day. What the hell's a wine like that still doing under cork?
There's plenty of demand for cork from non-wine related uses.
Sorry if it's not quite so profitable as the old monopoly on wine corks used to be. But that's what happens to monopolies - they get slack, inefficient and start treating their customers like dirt. When an alternative does finally come along, is it any wonder customers react the way they do?
cheers,
Graeme

No doubt a screwcap would not keep a 45 Mouton or 78 La Tache in the way the best corks would have.

But wouldn't it be fascinating to be able to make the comparison?

I have tasted old wines that are ghosts of the great wines they once were. I suspect that under screw-cap, they would be well and truly living. It might truly be like stepping back in time.

[winetastic]

No doubt a screwcap would not keep a 45 Mouton or 78 La Tache in the way the best corks would have.

I think its fair to say there is a lot of doubt actually.

[orpheus]

No doubt a screwcap would not keep a 45 Mouton or 78 La Tache in the way the best corks would have.

I think its fair to say there is a lot of doubt actually.

I was responding to the post I quoted, and the whole of my post has to be read.

I am not saying that it would not keep as well as a high quality cork. But I am reasonably confident that it would age differently, from the comparisons I have made.

[DJ]

Every time this comes up I wonder if a spoof of the current debate on cork vs stelvin would work. Over the centuries there have been a few major technology changes and I wonder what the carry on was like then. Four years ago I started writing one so here goes:

I don’t like these new fangled barrels.
Family has only used the finest Canaanite wine jars for 2000 years
Mind you we had real supply problems when those bloody Hebrews took over
Supplier claimed major war going on but from what I saw on a study tour it was just little skirmishes as usual
Jericho’s walls didn’t come down – probably just let the invaders in after a boozing session – no doubt celebrating that they are the oldest wine growers in the region.

I don’t like these new fangled corks – stupid enough when someone came up with the idea of glass bottles – what’s wrong with a good old fashioned wine skin – they are lighter to begin with – sure you can’t put new wine in an old skin but that is a small price to pay.

[orpheus]

Every time this comes up I wonder if a spoof of the current debate on cork vs stelvin would work. Over the centuries there have been a few major technology changes and I wonder what the carry on was like then. Four years ago I started writing one so here goes:

I don’t like these new fangled barrels.
Family has only used the finest Canaanite wine jars for 2000 years
Mind you we had real supply problems when those bloody Hebrews took over
Supplier claimed major war going on but from what I saw on a study tour it was just little skirmishes as usual
Jericho’s walls didn’t come down – probably just let the invaders in after a boozing session – no doubt celebrating that they are the oldest wine growers in the region.

I don’t like these new fangled corks – stupid enough when someone came up with the idea of glass bottles – what’s wrong with a good old fashioned wine skin – they are lighter to begin with – sure you can’t put new wine in an old skin but that is a small price to pay.

It's an odd debate though on this particular thread, because as far as I can see, everyone is basically on the same side