whats the point

[lordson]

Whats the point in wine? I dont really get it now. I drank a couple of bottles, admittedly not fantastic well known brands, and badly stored. but i didn't get the hype

whats all this about fruits and aromas and tasting notes

i didn't taste anything, just tasted like dishwater to me. and thats with most wines i've had in restuarants too. they're just not that great. its not that great a drink.

how can you distinguish a $150 bottle from a $15 bottle?

I'm going to go out and buy a "good" wine from DM and see if its worth all the hype before i continue any further down this expensive wine drinking road.

whats a good bottle thats accesible right now and let me understand what good/fine wine is all about and if its even worth bothering drinking wine

i was thinking of getting a Wolf Blass Grey Label Shiraz 06

or the Rebellion Pinot 05 (94 points on Halliday)

or maybe a Penfolds Bin 128


i really dont know what i should buy, i want to spend about $35 on this one single bottle thats going to do it for me ... or not. i've tried most of the variatals and they all taste the same to me. just different levels of bitterness and strongness. i dont taste any fruits or aromas or flavours

and its not my palate, i have a very good palate when it comes to food and different flavours i can sense when eating fine food

thanks alot guys

[Red Bigot]

lordson, forgive my impatience and indeed cynicism, but you should bite the bullet, buy the James Halliday Wine Companion 2009 and buy some of the highly pointed wines. There are plenty available at under $50 and indeed many under $30. If you are in Melbourne, there are plenty of free tastings at a number of merchants, possibly even out Sunbury way, go find out what suits you.
If you don't like any of them, then go back to drinking beer or spirits or water.

For the cynical bit, your posts are starting to look like a bit of a fishing trip, maybe even a wind-up. (Why would a "newbie" be worried or even know about "bad storage" of wine? Apologies if I'm wrong, but stop whinging about how bad wine tastes and take the advice that's already been given and work out what you like or give it up.

Your latest post doesn't quite gel with your first...

"Whenever I order a house red it doesn't taste great, but when I order a more expensive glass >$10, then it tastes sooo much better, and I'm not sure why. its less harsh, the lingering aftertastes are much much better, and theres no bitterness/heavy spiceness as with the cheaper stuff"

[TORB]

Based on this last post, if you think you have a good palate and can't get what wine is all about, then don't sweat it and go back to other beverages.

However, your posts looks like that of a wind up merchant to me.

[dave vino]

Go here and buy these - Gav's Picks. This 6-pack will cost you around $150 delivered. It's a good example big flavour profiled wines that's available at the various price points.

Chapel Hill Cabernet $32
http://www.auswine.com.au/product.asp?P ... 758&CtgID=

Hoddles Creek Chardonnay 2007 $19
http://www.auswine.com.au/product.asp?P ... 528&CtgID=

Chris Ringland CR Ebenezer Shiraz 2006 $25
http://www.auswine.com.au/product.asp?P ... 119&CtgID=

Elderton Shiraz 2005 $27
http://www.auswine.com.au/product.asp?P ... 223&CtgID=

Grant Burge Thorn Eden Valley Riesling 2007 $17
http://www.auswine.com.au/product.asp?P ... 277&CtgID=

Longhop Shiraz 2007 $17
http://www.auswine.com.au/product.asp?P ... 276&CtgID=


Very important is the temperature you open them up at - around 18C for Reds and about 10-13C for the whites, put in fridge if you need to get the temps down. If you don't have a decanter just pour a glass and leave it for 20mins swirling every now and again and take small sips to see if the mouth feel and aromas are changing. If you leave it for 5mins and then stick your nose it the glass you should get all flavours of the wine. Be it Cherry Ripe, Blackberries, Liquorice, for the reds and lemons/grapefruit/melons for the white. Take a sip, swirl it around in your mouth, 'chomp' on it, feel the tannins leave it in there for a good 10secs then swallow then see how long you can still taste it. First mouthful is usually a bit more tannic but once your mouth is coated and you can start to see the fruit more providing it's all balanced.

At first it seems like hard work but as you go on, you find you're doing all this without even thinking about it when drinking wine.

If you insist on going to DM's try some of their 'cellared stuff' like the Elderton GSM 1999 and try that.

[Maroon&Blue]

Lordson

Excuse me.......I am feeling this bloke is a classic forum urger?/WAN.ER.

Brian was more than understanding than I would be & "SUNBURY" if you don't mind!

If this character would take the time to listen and learn, then he would understand that the whole wine tasting process, is a long and arduous process, a skill only developed over many years!

Posts on the forum are from passionate people who are passing on their many years of wine experiences.

Lordson, at least have the decency to absorb and you may one day develop that skill!

END OF RANT

Ronaldo

[Wizz]

Whats the point in wine? I dont really get it now. I drank a couple of bottles, admittedly not fantastic well known brands, and badly stored. but i didn't get the hype

whats all this about fruits and aromas and tasting notes

i didn't taste anything, just tasted like dishwater to me. and thats with most wines i've had in restuarants too. they're just not that great. its not that great a drink.

Do you think the bolded bits above might have been a problem?

how can you distinguish a $150 bottle from a $15 bottle?

What $150 wines have you tried?

I'm going to go out and buy a "good" wine from DM and see if its worth all the hype before i continue any further down this expensive wine drinking road.

whats a good bottle thats accesible right now and let me understand what good/fine wine is all about and if its even worth bothering drinking wine

i was thinking of getting a Wolf Blass Grey Label Shiraz 06

or the Rebellion Pinot 05 (94 points on Halliday)

or maybe a Penfolds Bin 128

Listen to Brian, and find other people who have been at this for a while. Listen to them too - free advice is a good place to start. Go to tastings, there are plenty of free ones about. And don't let wankers like me intimidate you. Work out what you like, if anything. Remember not everyone likes the same thing. My Palate is different to Brians. and Ric's. and n4sir's. and Craig NZ's.

i really dont know what i should buy, i want to spend about $35 on this one single bottle thats going to do it for me ... or not. i've tried most of the variatals and they all taste the same to me. just different levels of bitterness and strongness. i don't taste any fruits or aromas or flavours

...but...

and its not my palate, i have a very good palate when it comes to food and different flavours i can sense when eating fine food

thanks alot guys

Am I reading that right? if your palate is as good as you say, you'd be picking up something other than "bitterness" and "strongness".

Can I suggest an experiment? Find a wine that someone has written a good tasting note on either here on this forum, or perhaps Halliday. Try it, write your own thoughts down, See how they correspond.

if all you can taste is dishwater, then I'm interested in what food you're putting across your good palate.

[Daryl Douglas]

I'm tempted, very tempted......**** it - stick with your alcopops, at least (I presume) they're nice and sugary sweet.

On a more serious note, just about any wine you spend $35 on should need 8-10 years or more after vintage to taste near it's best. As others have alluded, wine is a long and sometimes disappointing excursion into the realm of the previously unknown. But there are great rewards for your palate when you find good'uns like Polleters Cab 05 or The Story Grampians Shiraz 06 for $20-$25, seriously good, seriously boutique wines even if they need some years more to show at their best.

You do seem a bit centred on Wolf Blass Shiraz 06. I can attest to the quality of the 04, the 05 was apparently close to it but from what I've gathered, it seems the 06 isn't quite up to the standard of these slightly earlier vintages. They are all, apparently, made from McLaren Vale fruit. I have a couple of bottles (of six) of the 04 stashed, won't drink another until about 2012.

Bloody corporate wine companies! Every time I think McLaren Vale, I think Seaview and almost cry because the reds are gone and all that's left of the label is some fizz that's not as good as it used to be.

It's still too young but you should be able to readily find St Hallett Blackwell Shiraz 06 almost anywhere for around $35 rrp - it needs another year or two to integrate more. I found it a bit disjointed at this stage. Grant Burge Filsell Shiraz 04 if you can find a bottle that's been reasonably well stored should be around $30 or so. Not a great wine but very Barossan in style, I prefer it to the 05. For up to $10 more than your $35, Turkey Flat Shiraz is a no-brainer, the 05 (not tasted) apparently up to the excellent standard of most previous vintages. Turkey Flat Cab 03 is a sleeper, should be starting to drink very nicely about now and if you find it should be about $35-$40. Brian?

Oh.......and grow up! Drink more wine to develop your palate. Halliday rated Jacobs Creek Shiraz Cab 06 90/100, I've tried it and for me it's about 88/100, very good value for $7-$8.

Cheers

daz

[lordson]

thanks for all the repkies and advice

i'll take it all into consideration

didn't mean to sound like i was "winding" you guys up (don't evenknow what that means)

i went to DM and asked the dude for a good wine i can drink right now

he recommended the Penfolds Kilmara Shiraz Bin 28 2003 for $3

he ketme taste that and the 03 Bin 128, and i bought a bottle of the 28

we'll see how i go

cheers fellas

[Daryl Douglas]

thanks for all the repkies and advice

i'll take it all into consideration

didn't mean to sound like i was "winding" you guys up (don't evenknow what that means)

i went to DM and asked the dude for a good wine i can drink right now

he recommended the Penfolds Kilmara Shiraz Bin 28 2003 for $3

he ketme taste that and the 03 Bin 128, and i bought a bottle of the 28

we'll see how i go

cheers fellas

Ok, not winding you up either. Perhaps "stirring" is an Australianism/Americanism more understandable for you. Penfolds Kalimna Bin 28 2003 for $3(? - $30?) sounds like one of DM's cellar releases. It should be ok, you tasted and bought it!

2003 is generally a lesser vintage for Sth Aust shiraz (Barossa/McLaren Vale/Riverland/Coonawarra etc - it was a very hot, dry vintage) but some good cabernet came from Coonawarra, think Wynns Black Label. Turkey Flat Cab 03 (Barossa) is very good.

Regardless of all that vintage reputation fluff/stuff, it all comes down to what you enjoy in your gob (mouth, palate, tongue etc).

Bin 28 is perhaps the most esteemed of Penfolds bin wines as far as value for money is concerned. There are many other wines I'd rather buy for $20 or $30.

Enjoy

daz

[Daniel Jess]

As someone who's life has revolved around wine since I was 16, I find it very hard to bite my tongue here and not jump to defend wine as a beverage.

Fact is, Lordson, wine isn't for everybody even if you do have a 'good palate'. That's why, as a sommelier, we are trained in all beverages, so we can recommend drinks other than wine for those who do not, or cannot, enjoy wine.

Don't give up yet, try a few more to make an educated choice.

[Daryl Douglas]

As someone who's life has revolved around wine since I was 16, I find it very hard to bite my tongue here and not jump to defend wine as a beverage.

Fact is, Lordson, wine isn't for everybody even if you do have a 'good palate'. That's why, as a sommelier, we are trained in all beverages, so we can recommend drinks other than wine for those who do not, or cannot, enjoy wine.

Don't give up yet, try a few more to make an educated choice.

On that note, perhaps lordson should try the standard Taylors cab and Taylors shiraz. Recent vintages I've tried are definitely big wines but still retain varietal characters, in the context of Clare terroir. I'm doubtful that Bin 28 these days is made exclusively of fruit from Penfold's Kalimna vineyards.

daz

(talking about the Clare tempts me to open a Jeanneret Denis 02 - no, no, no daz - it's ok, I'm over it now, maybe next year or the year after)

[Roscoe]

Based on this last post, if you think you have a good palate and can't get what wine is all about, then don't sweat it and go back to other beverages.

I agree with TORB. I don't really see any point in persisting. If you have to try to like wine, what's the point? You're better off without it. You're not a greater or lesser person if you don't like wine.

[Bick]

You're not a greater or lesser person if you don't like wine.

Wash your mouth out.

[Wayno]

You're not a greater or lesser person if you don't like wine.

Wash your mouth out.

With wine.

[KMP]

........................

how can you distinguish a $150 bottle from a $15 bottle?

I'm going to go out and buy a "good" wine from DM and see if its worth all the hype before i continue any further down this expensive wine drinking road.

This post sounds like a wind up that will result in an advert for The Wine Trials book!

Its really doubtful that a single bottle of wine, irrespective of price, is going to satisfy you as far as the hype that anyone may have placed on that wine.

Whats the point in wine? I dont really get it now. I drank a couple of bottles, admittedly not fantastic well known brands, and badly stored. but i didn't get the hype

whats all this about fruits and aromas and tasting notes

i didn't taste anything, just tasted like dishwater to me. and thats with most wines i've had in restuarants too. they're just not that great. its not that great a drink..............

i really dont know what i should buy, i want to spend about $35 on this one single bottle thats going to do it for me ... or not. i've tried most of the variatals and they all taste the same to me. just different levels of bitterness and strongness. i dont taste any fruits or aromas or flavours

and its not my palate, i have a very good palate when it comes to food and different flavours i can sense when eating fine food

thanks alot guys

If you do have a good palate when it comes to food and flavors then you should have no problems when it comes to wine. Unless in reading tasting notes you are expecting the smells described for a wine are also reflected in its taste; a pretty common problem with wine neophytes.

While the appreciation of wine and food uses the same senses – sight, smell and taste - the big difference is that when you eat, say a ripe blackberry, you expect the smell to be associated with particular tastes including sweetness. That will not be the same in a wine that smells of blackberry because the wine has most probably been fermented to dryness and so there should not be any perceptible sugar. In other words smell and taste are done by different organs (nose v tongue) and make use of different receptors.

Mike

[Luke W]

Lordson

Just a matter of interest - how long have you been drinking wine for, may I ask?

For myself, wine appreciation has been an evolving process - starting off with a "goon" of McWilliam sauterne in the early 70's while playing cards, advancing to casks of Yalumba Riesling and Jacob's Ck red in the mid 70's to getting more adventurous with winery tours. I'd say it would have been 10 years between starting to drink wine and my first Grange (boy did that change my mind about the parameters of red wine). Even now I feel that I have so much more to learn and explore with wine and look forward to constant drooling in my retirement in a few years......

If you haven't been drinking for long, many of the fabulous wines that wine afficionado's are extolling the virtues about may not be for you yet - your palate may not be ready for them. Go to lots of tastings and try and find those you like and buy them for awhile and then you'll probably move onto something else when you're ready.

[KMP]

......

If you haven't been drinking for long, many of the fabulous wines that wine afficionado's are extolling the virtues about may not be for you yet - your palate may not be ready for them. Go to lots of tastings and try and find those you like and buy them for awhile and then you'll probably move onto something else when you're ready.

This is very good advice. I'd suggest linking to the Wine Events site and finding out what tastings are on in your area.

Mike

[lordson]

well thanks fellas, i've only started for a few month. ordering a glass of wine with every meal when i can

when i look at DM's and what i've been paying, it really ticks me off what restuarants charge, but i digress

i've only had a few bottles. the most recent, a Penfolds Thomas Hyland Cab Sauv 2006 i had, was good, i reckon. wasn't flat and lifeless like the previous bottle is had, utter crap. although it seemed a bit alcoholic, a bit "young" i've heard it described as, and i think it fits the description

i've yet to open my bottles of Taylors shiraz, and Bin 28, can't wait to try them.

its not fantastic, and a bit expensive, so most likely i might give up this wine business, but i've yet to try more, so won't make any decisions yet.

i was reading tasting notes of the Hyland Sab 2006, and what i smelled corresponded to what they smelled. but i couldn't discern and differenciate what i was tasting. i was tasting something, and it was somewhat pleasing, but all this "blackcurrent, oak, nutmeg (i've never had nutmeg in my life!), etc they were talking about. i couldn't quite work it out. i could kinda taste the cinnamon. but the only thing i could really tell was the aftertaste, a bit grapey, bit fruity, bit blaccurant, i wasn't sure. think it could have just been the Cab Sauv grapes


anyway, thanks for reading, be interesting to see how those other bottles go down

cheers

[Davo]

(i've never had nutmeg in my life

Are you saying you have never had a custard tart??

First wine and now custard tarts.

Bl@@dy Heathen

[lordson]

ahh, nutmeg. tastes alot like cinnamon, slightly different

well i defeinately couldn't taste that in the wine though others could

[Almaviva]

You're not a greater or lesser person if you don't like wine.

Wash your mouth out.

With wine.

Listerwine

[Davo]

ahh, nutmeg. tastes alot like cinnamon, slightly different

well i defeinately couldn't taste that in the wine though others could

No, nutmeg tastes like nutmeg. Nutmeg is sprinkled on top of custard tarts in whichever part of the world I have tried them, not cinnamon.

[Daryl Douglas]

ahh, nutmeg. tastes alot like cinnamon, slightly different

well i defeinately couldn't taste that in the wine though others could

No, nutmeg tastes like nutmeg. Nutmeg is sprinkled on top of custard tarts in whichever part of the world I have tried them, not cinnamon.

I'm yet to taste a custard tart as good as me old mum used to make, with a liberal dusting of freshly-grated nutmeg. Yummm...

[Daryl Douglas]

Lordson, the Penfolds Hyland Shiraz 06 I tasted at the barn this afternoon from one of those plastic thimble things wasn't bad. For $12, I may get a bottle to have a proper taste this weekend.

Cheers

daz

[pokolbinguy]

G'day Lordson,

This seems to me like the common problem that I am faced with at work ( I work in a large cellar door). People that are in-experienced and uneducated on wine and just do not understand. Now this is deffinatley not a bad thing and you should not feel dumb/stupid or anything along those lines because of it....we have all been there before. No-one is born a wine connoisseur, even if some act like they were :p

You need to take it slow, and be open minded. You have to understand that you are just starting out and everything is new at the moment. Its the same with food / beer etc. If you put the blinkers on (as in the eye covers used on horses to make them pay attention to walking straight) you will never experience new things. Plenty of people only eat/drink the same basic meals/drinks all the time and never venture out into the broader world of food/beer etc.

I would recommend the following:

- Go on a winery tour (of the winery itself...where they make the wine). This will explain the process of wine making and put everything in perspective. Such as "2007 was a great year in the hunter......but why"

- Join in on a tasting at a reputable winery...where the staff know what they are talking about. If you want recommendations just ask. This will allow the staff to take you from the start and explain the wines so that you understand. We are here to educate as well as sell wine.

- Be willing to spend a little bit of money. You dont have to spend heaps. There are plenty of nice wines out there for under $20.

- Don't put the blinkers on. Eventually you will find something you like. This will lead you to others of similar styles and eventually you will end up liking that "big gusty dirty hunter style of shiraz that originally you thought tasted like a bucket of burnt dirt" (just an example).

- Ask questions and don't be embarrassed..we are all here for a reason, we all are interested in wines. Some know ALOT and some know very little. But thats what makes this a great forum.

Cheers, Brett

P.S. If you are in NSW and can get to the Hunter Valley easily let me know, I work and live in the area and would be more than willing to set you on the right course. Feel free to come and visit me at McWilliams and I can show you around and explain the basics. Remember we all start at the start!!!