If you want to really appreciate how good our SA wines are and how inexpensive they are........take a trip to NZ. After 2 weeks in the Queenstown area I finished up drinking beer and scotch as I couldn't pay the ridiculous prices for wines that were often 2nd rate. Most restaurants and cafes only sell Otago wines which means Pinots, Riesling etc. That's fine but when the bottle prices start at $45 and quickly escalate to $80 or $100+ you know that you are in a tourist town. Went to Rippon Lea at Wanaka which has to has one of the most stunning outlooks of any winery in the world (across the lake to snow covered mountains). The current vintage 2006 Pinot Noir was FAQ but $45 was too much and I saw it in a restaurant later for $80!
In desperation I tried a few North Island Cabernet Merlots which were generally thin and the only wines I enjoyed were Hawkes Bay Chardonnay and Marlborough Sauv Blanc.
Oh for a good Shiraz or Cabernet!!!
Having been weaned on French Burgundy I just can't see the merit in highly fruit driven, one dimensional Pinots from NZ. When you think you can get a Majella Cabernet for $30 and most NZ pinots are $55+, there really is no comparison. Does anyone out there agree or do you really think NZ Pinots are great drinking and good value?[/img]
New Zealand trip
New Zealand trip
We're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time!
I think in any region you need to sort the wheat from the chaff. I think Central Otago is prone to inconsistency, but I found a few great wines that I happily shelled out $40-$50 for, and some fair value whites at $20 or so. Queenstown is undoubtedly a tourist trap...but it's also a hell of a fun place. I think if you know what you are in for, you can sidestep the blatant rip-offs and just settle for the restaurants who are into good old fashioned profiteering.
Personally I think Martinborough offers better quality and value Pinot, but it's horses for courses.
All that said...I wouldn't go to NZ looking for a chunky SA Shiraz or Cabernet, just as I wouldn't go to Tassie lookig for the same.
Personally I think Martinborough offers better quality and value Pinot, but it's horses for courses.
All that said...I wouldn't go to NZ looking for a chunky SA Shiraz or Cabernet, just as I wouldn't go to Tassie lookig for the same.
I got into trouble a few weeks ago re my comments on the search for a "good well priced pinot" when compared to a Sth Australian Shiraz or as you mentioned Majella Cabernet.
Tonight I'm having a 2004 Brands Cabernet which is currently selling for $13.85 pb and loving it. The Martinborough pinot I was flogging all afternoon for $25.99 just could not compare.
Graham
Tonight I'm having a 2004 Brands Cabernet which is currently selling for $13.85 pb and loving it. The Martinborough pinot I was flogging all afternoon for $25.99 just could not compare.
Graham
Chardonnay: A drink you have when there is no RED wine, the beer hasn't arrived and the water may be polluted
In a way I'm not surprised you didn't like the wines - Cool climate NZ Pinot after a diet of SA Shiraz and Cabernet. The proverbial chalk and cheese. Add onto that the premium for Pinot Noir the world over and you were always onto a loser.
There are one or two people I know over here who would have pretty much the same problem if holidaying in the Barossa (say). Horses for courses indeed.
Personally I do think Otago has got a bit ahead of itself. Sometimes it's better to quietly build a reputation before you're championed as the next big thing in Pinot Noir wines. I've also had better luck in Martinborough, but still keen to see how the Otago wines come along. Definitely not to be written off IMO. Your comment on the whites is no surprise and as all the hype is on the Pinot, I'd expect there to be some fine Chardonnays and rieslings knocking around down there.
As a location I've not been to Queenstown, but as a tourist destination (as per the world over) I'm not surprised to hear of the profiteering.
regards
Ian
There are one or two people I know over here who would have pretty much the same problem if holidaying in the Barossa (say). Horses for courses indeed.
Personally I do think Otago has got a bit ahead of itself. Sometimes it's better to quietly build a reputation before you're championed as the next big thing in Pinot Noir wines. I've also had better luck in Martinborough, but still keen to see how the Otago wines come along. Definitely not to be written off IMO. Your comment on the whites is no surprise and as all the hype is on the Pinot, I'd expect there to be some fine Chardonnays and rieslings knocking around down there.
As a location I've not been to Queenstown, but as a tourist destination (as per the world over) I'm not surprised to hear of the profiteering.
regards
Ian
Nicely summed up Ian. I agree CO's wines aren't as good as the early hype - some very very nice ones but not enough. Their season is perilous - frost risk at both the beginning and the end of the season, the ripening period is very short, and some of the sites aren't exactly forgiving! Some pricing is fair, some is not. I don't think thats too unusual. I'm thinking Mornington peninsula or Margaret River might be the same, and so is the Hunter so some degree.
Also agreed other parts of NZ are a better bet - Waipara is my favourite right now.
As for Queenstown - I last visited in my teens over 20 years ago, and we visited in the final weeks of the ski season last year. if you're twenty something, this is party central. If you're not, this is one of the most out-of-control, bloated, rapacious tourist traps I have ever seen. But the natural beauty is undeniable.
cheers
Andrew
Wines: I liked Wooing Tree's pinot, and whites from Carrick, Bald Hills and Chard Farm. Pinots were OK. Felton Road were closed, Mt Difficulty was only showing its commercial range.
Also agreed other parts of NZ are a better bet - Waipara is my favourite right now.
As for Queenstown - I last visited in my teens over 20 years ago, and we visited in the final weeks of the ski season last year. if you're twenty something, this is party central. If you're not, this is one of the most out-of-control, bloated, rapacious tourist traps I have ever seen. But the natural beauty is undeniable.
cheers
Andrew
Wines: I liked Wooing Tree's pinot, and whites from Carrick, Bald Hills and Chard Farm. Pinots were OK. Felton Road were closed, Mt Difficulty was only showing its commercial range.
Most restaurants and cafes only sell Otago wines which means Pinots, Riesling etc. That's fine but when the bottle prices start at $45 and quickly escalate to $80 or $100+ you know that you are in a tourist town. Went to Rippon Lea at Wanaka which has to has one of the most stunning outlooks of any winery in the world (across the lake to snow covered mountains). The current vintage 2006 Pinot Noir was FAQ but $45 was too much and I saw it in a restaurant later for $80!
yeah welcome to travel. ive seen current vintage bin 389 in sydney for $70 retail when i was buying it for $25 in NZ. Happens everywhere
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
Personally I do think Otago has got a bit ahead of itself. Sometimes it's better to quietly build a reputation before you're championed as the next big thing in Pinot Noir wines. I've also had better luck in Martinborough, but still keen to see how the Otago wines come along. Definitely not to be written off IMO. Your comment on the whites is no surprise and as all the hype is on the Pinot, I'd expect there to be some fine Chardonnays and rieslings knocking around down there.
dont forget otago productionwise is still very tiny and the top stuff is still quite scarce
If for your tour of queenstown and wanaka the best you can do is grumble about the price of stuff and the fact that a 5 barrel pinot noir isnt on for free tasting free for whoever passes by you are very short sighted. The scenery is out of this world down there, there is tonnes to do (sure at a cost but choose one or two things) and there are plenty of free hikes etc that will blow you away with clear, clean vistas. my thoughts anyway
im down there next month and i can assure you only one day will be spent at wineries!!
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
Your welcome to your opinion Shadrach of course, but your arguments seem kinda dodgy and illogical to me:
(i) Pinot costs more than shiraz everywhere in the world - its a tricky, low yielding grape variety, so hardly surprising it costs more. If you don't like good Pinot just don't buy it.
(ii) There are plenty of excellent wines from Otago that are inexpensive - how about Carrick Riesling for a start - very nice at $19.
(iii) So what if Rippon Pinot cost nearly double the retail cost in a restaurant? Its called restaurant markup, and its the same everywhere in the world - hardly surprising, nor a reflection of the value of NZ wine.
(i) Pinot costs more than shiraz everywhere in the world - its a tricky, low yielding grape variety, so hardly surprising it costs more. If you don't like good Pinot just don't buy it.
(ii) There are plenty of excellent wines from Otago that are inexpensive - how about Carrick Riesling for a start - very nice at $19.
(iii) So what if Rippon Pinot cost nearly double the retail cost in a restaurant? Its called restaurant markup, and its the same everywhere in the world - hardly surprising, nor a reflection of the value of NZ wine.
Re: New Zealand trip
see following post
Last edited by SueNZ on Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shadrach wrote:If you want to really appreciate how good our SA wines are and how inexpensive they are........take a trip to NZ.
Shadrach, you could also change the destination after the dots to ...... take a trip to WA.
All my NZ friends that went to WA on a tour lamented how difficult it was to find affordable drinkable SA Shiraz even in that state, let alone a juicy, fruity refreshing NZ sauv blanc.
SA wines do represent excellent value and there are plenty available in NZ, you just have to go to the right retail outlets.
But even Australian wines have horrendous markups in restaurants - it's unfortunate, but that's the way it is - and BYO restaurants are getting harder and harder to find as restaurateurs can only see $$$ by being fully licensed.
FYI - NZ imports more then twice as much Australian wine than wine from anywhere else -i.e. Aussie wine represents more than half of the imports.
NZ is number 5 on the list of countries that import Australian wines, following UK, USA, Canada and Germany. And there's more wine from SA here than from any other state.
BTW - how easy is it to find wines from other countries, even other Australian states, in South Australia? I have to admit I didn't really look when I went there, as I went to South Australia to drink SA wines.
Re: New Zealand trip
Shadrach wrote: Oh for a good Shiraz or Cabernet!!!
If that is your preference and what you are acustomed to, then that is what you should stick to. I have been lucky enough to try many very good wines ex Central Otago sourced by a close relative that works in the industry. To me prices are high for 'everyday' drinking but in my experience are well worth it.