March 1st release of 2006 vintage is $75 ex cellar door. Has it just got too expensive to be a cellar regular???
What say ye fellow kiwis??
Has the day dawned when coleraine is just too expensive??
Has the day dawned when coleraine is just too expensive??
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
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Craig
Just a general comment on NZ wines. With the exception of many SBs most NZ wines that make it to the US seem expensive for what they deliver. The Syrahs and Pinots I've seen recently are well into the $40-50 range and while they may be excellent wines they have pretty stiff competition not only from US wines but other imports. A couple of years ago when I first tasted Craggy Range wines I commented on the poor value they were, even though they were very, very good wines. Unfortunately things only seem to be getting worse, and with stagflation looming the US market is very likely to show less and less interest.
Besides it gets slightly scary when you see a NZ SB at $70USD/bottle in a restaurant - OK it was Cloudy Bay which goes for $20-25USD, but still $70 for NZ SB is pretty stiff!
Mike
Just a general comment on NZ wines. With the exception of many SBs most NZ wines that make it to the US seem expensive for what they deliver. The Syrahs and Pinots I've seen recently are well into the $40-50 range and while they may be excellent wines they have pretty stiff competition not only from US wines but other imports. A couple of years ago when I first tasted Craggy Range wines I commented on the poor value they were, even though they were very, very good wines. Unfortunately things only seem to be getting worse, and with stagflation looming the US market is very likely to show less and less interest.
Besides it gets slightly scary when you see a NZ SB at $70USD/bottle in a restaurant - OK it was Cloudy Bay which goes for $20-25USD, but still $70 for NZ SB is pretty stiff!
Mike
Your exchange rate isnt too flash at the moment we are at 82c.
Same used to be the case here with US wines...... when we were floundering at 45c.....way too expensive
But yes as a rule nz wines are comparitively expensive overseas - doesnt nz wine command the highest average price in London?? I read that somewhere
Same used to be the case here with US wines...... when we were floundering at 45c.....way too expensive
But yes as a rule nz wines are comparitively expensive overseas - doesnt nz wine command the highest average price in London?? I read that somewhere
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
I brought a bottle at CD in 2002, and I will need to check my records, but I am sure it was $50, so I would think $4-$5 annual increase on average is a bit steep.
That said they are probably not increasing production greatly, and no doubt demand is on the rise.
You gotta pay for pedigree. I would think 389 has increased at similar rates over the last 3-4 years, although not in NZ it would seem.
That said they are probably not increasing production greatly, and no doubt demand is on the rise.
You gotta pay for pedigree. I would think 389 has increased at similar rates over the last 3-4 years, although not in NZ it would seem.
maybe its just because it has a history and we can remember coleraine at $35 that we gulp a bit. there are plenty of new wineries that charge heaps for wines with no pedigree.
in the scheme of nz fine wine maybe its still about where it should be. but it hurts when its a wine you have in the past bought by the case as there is no way i can afford to buy those quantities again!!
as for cloudy bay at $11 a glass, thats a snip. Id expect to pay $16-20 for it in NZ for a glass at a nice bar.
in the scheme of nz fine wine maybe its still about where it should be. but it hurts when its a wine you have in the past bought by the case as there is no way i can afford to buy those quantities again!!
as for cloudy bay at $11 a glass, thats a snip. Id expect to pay $16-20 for it in NZ for a glass at a nice bar.
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
Craig(NZ) wrote:maybe its just because it has a history and we can remember coleraine at $35 that we gulp a bit. there are plenty of new wineries that charge heaps for wines with no pedigree.
in the scheme of nz fine wine maybe its still about where it should be. but it hurts when its a wine you have in the past bought by the case as there is no way i can afford to buy those quantities again!!
If you live a bit longer you will have plenty of wines you stopped buying due to prices rises to reminisce about. I fondly remember when Henschke wines were still relatively good value and affordable even to me.
It's a cyclical process, wines become priced higher than you think they are worth, you find new wines to replace them and they gradually get a reputation and increase in price so you stop buying them and find a replacement which gradually...
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Re: Has the day dawned when coleraine is just too expensive?
Craig(NZ) wrote:March 1st release of 2006 vintage is $75 ex cellar door. Has it just got too expensive to be a cellar regular???
Yep. Too high for me. In fact it was too high last year as well and I think the last vintage I bought was 2000.
Replaced all the Coleraine I used to buy with Bullnose, which I prefer and is cheaper
Rob
Red Bigot wrote:Craig(NZ) wrote:maybe its just because it has a history and we can remember coleraine at $35 that we gulp a bit. there are plenty of new wineries that charge heaps for wines with no pedigree.
in the scheme of nz fine wine maybe its still about where it should be. but it hurts when its a wine you have in the past bought by the case as there is no way i can afford to buy those quantities again!!
If you live a bit longer ...
Gosh, Brian, I read that and I thought you were threatening Craig just for a minute there...
cheers,
Graeme
Craig(NZ) wrote:Just got a press release for the Penfolds Bin range this year....I note with interest that the RRP on the Bin 389 this year is $57.99..
um sorry, the penfolds thread is next door......
My apologies, I was responding in reference to Brian's thoughts on wines that have just grown too expensive...this used to be a staple for me but above $50 it has become a bit rich...now back to the Coleraine....same thought, different channel.
CHeers
My apologies,
dont worry mate, was just pulling your chain.
Anyway back onto Te Mata, Will one of the contributing writers to the great kwfc has just sent in some pretty encouraging notes, looking forward to trying them. On paper Elston is expected to be a great wine from 2007, and looks like it is from Wills words. Coleraine also tidy!!
Monday will be interesting
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
Re: Has the day dawned when coleraine is just too expensive?
Craig(NZ) wrote:March 1st release of 2006 vintage is $75 ex cellar door. Has it just got too expensive to be a cellar regular???
What say ye fellow kiwis??
I see the 2005 (which at the release tasting Te Mata pronounced as being confident it was the wine they've made) is still selling for $65 in retail.
It seems the 2002, 2003 and 2004 were $60 on release so even then, for some of us, it was in the realms of not being a cellar regular.
I've made a note that the 2001 ranged between $54 and $65 in retail.
I think upwardly spiralling prices are going to be a common trend.
I see the 2005 (which at the release tasting Te Mata pronounced as being confident it was the wine they've made) is still selling for $65 in retail.
I got mine for $60 from memory, and saw it as cheap as $49 throughout last year.
Ive tried most vintages of coleraine but not all (havent tried the famed 82 or 83). I decided not to go to the upcoming 25 year tasting purely on economics. Based on my experience most, if not all, the 80s wines should be past their prime anyway, and I have tried most other vintages many times and will continue to have that opportunity to do so thanks to the cellar. Will save my dosh for the scenic 05 bdx tasting.
So 'best ever' I cant make judgement on but my opinion is it is certainly up there with top vintages like 91,95,98,00.
I imagine if I like the 06 coleraine I will buy a bottle or two, and some elston but the days of mixed dozens are over for me.
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
Wow! $49 - that's good. I think like the Penfolds, there's a bit of a buying frenzy when the wines are first released, but these days they don't all sell out as quickly as they used too. Price would have a lot to do with it and would the many other choices for the consumer.Craig(NZ) wrote:I see the 2005 (which at the release tasting Te Mata pronounced as being confident it was the wine they've made) is still selling for $65 in retail.
I got mine for $60 from memory, and saw it as cheap as $49 throughout last year.
Craig(NZ) wrote:Ive tried most vintages of Coleraine but not all (havent tried the famed 82 or 83). I decided not to go to the upcoming 25 year tasting purely on economics. Based on my experience most, if not all, the 80s wines should be past their prime anyway .....
Craig - you are probably right about the old wines beign past their prime. I've copying here my notes on the 1982 and 1983 from a tasting I did in 1993.
1982 Coleraine
Colour: garnet, bright, pale, breaking up on edge.
Bouquet: French-like.
Taste: Slightly tannin with a slight bite. French oak comes through. Cedary, lighter than '81. Sweet berry flavours, portish. Elegant.
Impression: Very good.
1983 Coleraine
Colour: Ruby portish, quite dark garnet red for its age. Youthful, some sediment.
Bouquet: Coffee, integrated oak.
Taste: Lacks something in the palate. Has some body but lacks ripe fruit on the finish. Slight caramelly.
Impression: Disappointing
The '81 mentioned in the 1982 review was the Cabernet Merlot which was the predecessor to Coleraine.
Cheers,
Sue
Sue
Although some of the old timers seem to hold on to the mystique and legend of the 82 and 83 coleraine and put it on an exalted perch, your notes seem to indicate what I suspect, an average bottle would be well past its best.
Really 80's vintage coleraine serves to satisfy our curiousity, but i wouldnt shell out money for any.
I have tried the 1980 Cabernet Merlot. My notes below are from from March 2002.
1980 Te Mata Cabernet Merlot. Nose of forest floor and mushroom. Palate was nearly tart, quite thin, no depth of flavour and very short. Well past its best, but still drinkable with some cheese to give it some body. Nothing to get excited about at this stage in its career.
Although some of the old timers seem to hold on to the mystique and legend of the 82 and 83 coleraine and put it on an exalted perch, your notes seem to indicate what I suspect, an average bottle would be well past its best.
Really 80's vintage coleraine serves to satisfy our curiousity, but i wouldnt shell out money for any.
I have tried the 1980 Cabernet Merlot. My notes below are from from March 2002.
1980 Te Mata Cabernet Merlot. Nose of forest floor and mushroom. Palate was nearly tart, quite thin, no depth of flavour and very short. Well past its best, but still drinkable with some cheese to give it some body. Nothing to get excited about at this stage in its career.
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
With the increase of Coleraine to $75 it is losing its value. Ive struggled with it since the 2000 vintage, to me it lost some of its character once merlot became the dominant grape.
Other nz wine that are made from Brdx varieties do offer better value nowdays than Coleraine, this was not the case in the 80's and early 90's when Coleraine was establishing its reputation. Craggy Range, Church Rd, Esk, Mills Reef just to name a few are nz wines that give value for less than $75, other nz red wine made from Syrah and P/N have case to such also. Then there is the imports.
Coleraine is still a good wine but $50 or less would be better value.
Have just had notice of the Te Mata Estate Showcase 2008 Tour, tastings of the Te Mata 2008 releases including 06 Coleraine, mini vertical of Elston chardonnay 07 02 00 and Awatea 06 00 98 all up ten wines total, ticket $40. In 2004 attended a Coleraine vertical tasting 1989-2000, ticket $48. I enjoyed it, well organised, excellent notes supplied and good rooms for tasting etc. what made it good value was the opportunity to taste good wine that you wouid be hard pressed to assemble your self. I dont see it that way with the 2008 showcase. No problem paying for tasting weather it be at vineyard etc but perhaps $20 wouid be more realistic. Being one of the most important persons in the industry ' the consumer' more consideration should be given to me/us.
Geoffrey
Other nz wine that are made from Brdx varieties do offer better value nowdays than Coleraine, this was not the case in the 80's and early 90's when Coleraine was establishing its reputation. Craggy Range, Church Rd, Esk, Mills Reef just to name a few are nz wines that give value for less than $75, other nz red wine made from Syrah and P/N have case to such also. Then there is the imports.
Coleraine is still a good wine but $50 or less would be better value.
Have just had notice of the Te Mata Estate Showcase 2008 Tour, tastings of the Te Mata 2008 releases including 06 Coleraine, mini vertical of Elston chardonnay 07 02 00 and Awatea 06 00 98 all up ten wines total, ticket $40. In 2004 attended a Coleraine vertical tasting 1989-2000, ticket $48. I enjoyed it, well organised, excellent notes supplied and good rooms for tasting etc. what made it good value was the opportunity to taste good wine that you wouid be hard pressed to assemble your self. I dont see it that way with the 2008 showcase. No problem paying for tasting weather it be at vineyard etc but perhaps $20 wouid be more realistic. Being one of the most important persons in the industry ' the consumer' more consideration should be given to me/us.
Geoffrey
Linden Wilkie (Fine wine experience?) has a vertical tasting of Coleraine lined up for later this year in UK. I'm not going myself, but might be worth keeping an eye out for any notes emerging from the event.
Yes it's a lot of money, but it does have a track record. For some that extra reassurance might sway them over (say) a new label $60 wine.
Yes it's a lot of money, but it does have a track record. For some that extra reassurance might sway them over (say) a new label $60 wine.
Have just had notice of the Te Mata Estate Showcase 2008 Tour, tastings of the Te Mata 2008 releases including 06 Coleraine, mini vertical of Elston chardonnay 07 02 00 and Awatea 06 00 98 all up ten wines total, ticket $40. In 2004 attended a Coleraine vertical tasting 1989-2000, ticket $48. I enjoyed it, well organised, excellent notes supplied and good rooms for tasting etc. what made it good value was the opportunity to taste good wine that you wouid be hard pressed to assemble your self. I dont see it that way with the 2008 showcase. No problem paying for tasting weather it be at vineyard etc but perhaps $20 wouid be more realistic. Being one of the most important persons in the industry ' the consumer' more consideration should be given to me/us
I dont pay for many tastings so dishing out a little extra for the Te mata tasting is ok. My feel is that usually i go to the Hawkes Bay that weekend so its no more than paying gas to get down there.
I dont have too much of a problem anymore with the merlot predominant thing. 2006 is only just merlot predominant anyway with a good whack of cab sauv. the merlot dominant ones do show very very well early. I remember having the 95,98 and 02 next to each other. The 02 was already sublime and packed with merlot
I went to the 89-00 vertical too and no complaints about the price. hiring out the stamford ballroom cant be too cheap and the logistics of tasting 10 wines for 100s of people cant be simple. on top of that its a 10 year vertical of nz's most famous bdx blend.
The showcase tasting at $40 is fair enough given the venue and the class of the wines. Its not as though you are tasting some scruffy jammy penfolds bin wines (dig dig) but a line up of class including some great vintages from back catalogue. eg the 98 awatea last time i had it was just sex in a glass.
Will be a good evening
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
Graig
I will probably be turning up at Showcase and shelling out my $40, ive been doing such for 40 odd years so why stop attending and grizzling now. But it does grate paying that sum when media, trade get invited for nicks ( been known to slide in as an imposer on such ticket). Forrest Estate from Marlborough have a vintage tour whoses wines now include a number of reds from Hawke Bay, all for nicks with finger food and good venue.
Tastings conducted by retail outlets give good value, $15-20 for range of wines equal to Te Mata showcase and with good discounts for purchase. oh for the glory days of Liquorland top 100 tasting $20-25 and 4hrs to do it in.
Things have hotted up in the wine retail in CHCH with a couple of new outlets opening one Auckland based, can only be good for the consumer.
Attended the 25th Marlborough Wine and Food Fest some weeks ago. toured a number of vineyards on the friday where most couldnt get you to taste their wine quick enough, unfortuntely most of it is Sav/Blanc, Marlborough struggle to make a good Bxd stlye red to save its self.
Geoffrey
I will probably be turning up at Showcase and shelling out my $40, ive been doing such for 40 odd years so why stop attending and grizzling now. But it does grate paying that sum when media, trade get invited for nicks ( been known to slide in as an imposer on such ticket). Forrest Estate from Marlborough have a vintage tour whoses wines now include a number of reds from Hawke Bay, all for nicks with finger food and good venue.
Tastings conducted by retail outlets give good value, $15-20 for range of wines equal to Te Mata showcase and with good discounts for purchase. oh for the glory days of Liquorland top 100 tasting $20-25 and 4hrs to do it in.
Things have hotted up in the wine retail in CHCH with a couple of new outlets opening one Auckland based, can only be good for the consumer.
Attended the 25th Marlborough Wine and Food Fest some weeks ago. toured a number of vineyards on the friday where most couldnt get you to taste their wine quick enough, unfortuntely most of it is Sav/Blanc, Marlborough struggle to make a good Bxd stlye red to save its self.
Geoffrey