Pirathon Shiraz 2005 question

drlev · Post by **drlev** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:55 pm

Hi, all.

I have a question which some of you may be able to shed some light on and settle an argument.

I have just tasted a bottle of 2005 Kalleske Pirathon Shiraz (or to be correct Pirathon by Kalleske) and my tastebuds tell me there is a hint of grenache in there. It is not mentioned on the label or in any info from the winery.

Has anyone else tried this and do you taste granche or am I just hallucinating (again)?

Cheers, Lev

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:35 am

Lev,

Under Oz law there can be 14.9% Grenache in there and it does not have to be on the label, so it is perfectly possible. Many winemakers fiddle with a small percentage of something, often its the addition of the current vintage to freshen up the wine, to name just one example.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:08 am

not sure about that, but its a pretty tidy wine thats for sure!

Bick · Post by **Bick** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:33 am

Yep, super wine.

With regard to Grenache - it could have some of course, but my guess would be that its pure shiraz. The bumpf on the Pirathon website goes into some detail about the wine making process, and doesn't mention any post-fermentation blending, whereas to make their Clarry's Grenache-Shiraz blend, the blending takes place after fermentation. Just a hunch... but I couldn't tell you from taste alone - its so tasty I could easily believe there were all sorts of things in there. If you find out for sure, let us know!

[Incidentally, I had the 05 Clarry's recently - very nice though I was more impressed by the Pirathon]

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:29 am

drlev wrote:
Has anyone else tried this and do you taste granche or am I just hallucinating (again)?

Cheers, Lev

Lev, I have it on good authority that there are indeed two rogue grenache vines in the vinyard from which Pirathon is made. You should take out insurance on your palate.

And if you fell for that I have a thousand cases of a $5 cleanskin red that is better than Grange, as determined by a panel of VB drinkers at the Oxford Arms hotel.

Seriously though, I have no idea if there is or not, but when I tried it I thought the partial red fruit spectrum flavours were just part of the beautiful sweet-shiraz-fruit package of this wine.

Wayno · Post by **Wayno** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:46 am

Yessir, a top little package in a nice little package. And well priced to boot.

beef · Post by **beef** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:08 pm

drlev wrote:Hi, all.

I have a question which some of you may be able to shed some light on and settle an argument.

I have just tasted a bottle of 2005 Kalleske Pirathon Shiraz (or to be correct Pirathon by Kalleske) and my tastebuds tell me there is a hint of grenache in there. It is not mentioned on the label or in any info from the winery.

Has anyone else tried this and do you taste granche or am I just hallucinating (again)?

Cheers, Lev

** This sort of thing certainly happens. The Woodcutter's Shiraz from Torbreck, for example, is obviously an S/V blend. But it's not mentioned on the label.

Stuart

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:29 pm

beef wrote:
drlev wrote:Hi, all.

** This sort of thing certainly happens. The Woodcutter's Shiraz from Torbreck, for example, is obviously an S/V blend. But it's not mentioned on the label.

Stuart

No so sure of that. Often Barossa shiraz can taste juicy and apricotty without the viognier.
GW

beef · Post by **beef** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:43 pm

Gary W wrote:
beef wrote:
drlev wrote:Hi, all.

** This sort of thing certainly happens. The Woodcutter's Shiraz from Torbreck, for example, is obviously an S/V blend. But it's not mentioned on the label.

Stuart

No so sure of that. Often Barossa shiraz can taste juicy and apricotty without the viognier.
GW

** I've never tasted another "straight" Shiraz with such overt Viognier characteristics. Care to name one?

Stuart

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:57 pm

Many of those fruity low oak early drink styles. Teusner Riebke is one.
Rutherglen Estates Shiraz another. Loose End Barossa Shiraz...and the Torbreck wines that don't have Viognier declared certainly have that juicy stonefruit quality. It is a known attribute (amongst certain tasters) of Barossa. Even Langi in certain vintages shows it (1999 when young).
GW

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:04 pm

Gary W wrote:Rutherglen Estates Shiraz another.

Funny you should mention that one, the 2006 vintage of this won a silver in the NWS Cl 13, which is a Shiraz-Viognier class, for entry it must have 1% or more Viognier.

Edit: Only 5 more to overtake TORB now. :-)

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:17 pm

Hmm. Yes I think I remember them saying the RE may have some V. in it..
Torbreck state that there is no Viognier in Woodcutters. I asked them about it of the 2005 vintage.

"No Viognier. We donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have much (only in the Descendant vineyard) and it getÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s used in Descendant and RunRig."

GW

beef · Post by **beef** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:22 pm

I'll try the Teusner Riebke over the weekend, and post my thoughts.

Stuart

griff · Post by **griff** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:52 pm

The Torbreck Factor tasted more apricot than the Descendant at Wine Australia last year. They swore blind that it hadn't any apricot in it. That was my experience.

cheers

Carl

beef · Post by **beef** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:53 pm

griff wrote:The Torbreck Factor tasted more apricot than the Descendant at Wine Australia last year. They swore blind that it hadn't any apricot in it. That was my experience.

cheers

Carl

** Maybe they use old S/V barrels. I know sod-all about wine-making and the various factors which influence the final product. But it seems feasible.

Stuart

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:07 am

There would not be any (significant) flavour carry through the barrels I would guess...being as they would be high pressure washed and scrubbed before use on a new wine. I think the answer may lie (apart from the fruit) more in the yeasts and type of ferment to build aromatics - but could be totally wrong.
GW

drlev · Post by **drlev** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:29 pm

Thank you, all - what a nice bunch (pun intended) of people hang out on this forum!

Brian, at $5 and better than Grange, I'd better take your offer! :wink:

And Carl, I have to ask: what are snozzberries?

Cheers, Lev

griff · Post by **griff** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:58 pm

drlev wrote:Thank you, all - what a nice bunch (pun intended) of people hang out on this forum!

Brian, at $5 and better than Grange, I'd better take your offer!

And Carl, I have to ask: what are snozzberries?

Cheers, Lev

A quote from Gene Wilder in Willy Wonka. Reminded me of a tasting note :lol:

cheers

Carl

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:45 pm

Tasted a bottle tonight. I am sure that it has a small % of viognier in the mix.

Cheers
Leigh

drlev · Post by **drlev** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:34 pm

For all who contributed, here is the definitive answer from the source:

Good Morning Lev,

Thanks for your queryÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.

100% Shiraz!

Sorry to say there is no Grenache or any other varieties in here for that matter. However the different flavours and complexity is derived from the grapes which come from 9 x growers / vineyards in the north-west Barossa and then various types of oak from a range of coopers is used.

Hope this clears things up for you and enjoy.

With Warm Regards,

Tony

Tony Kalleske

Kalleske Wines Pty Ltd

Pirathon Wines Pty Ltd

PO Box 650 Greenock

South Australia 5360

T: 0403 811 433 F: 08 8562 8118

www.kalleske.com

www.pirathon.com

seanwines · Post by **seanwines** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:50 pm

I tried this wine, it was ok

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