Riesling query

[Ratcatcher]

What's with Riesling prices in the last 6 months?

Lots of wines that used to be in the $16 - $17 range and occasionally reduced are now up to $23???

Obviously there are some bargains still around but a lot of wines have jumped 33% or more in a very short period.

Is this the start of the grape shortage from 2007 hitting prices?

Or is it all marketing departments in big corporations playing games. A couple of the wines I have noticed have had another brand introduced underneath it.

There are a few I've noticed but the example I'll use is Bin 7.

Was generally about $16 last year now $23. Leasingham now have 2 Rieslings under it and I assume still the Classic Clare above it. Has it improved $7 a bottle in quality, has it replaced Classic Clare or is it all marketing or is it prices rising due to the 2007 harvest?

[roughred]

A quick google and I can still find as much Bin 7 as you would like between $16-$18. Gavin has it listed at $16.

To me it seems Riesling prices are surprisingly steady - Current release Heggies, Jim Barry (x2), Leo Buring (x2) Oleary Walker (x2), St Helga, Mitchell, Pewsey Vale, Pikes, Richmond Grove, Torzi Matthews, Tim Adams and Knappstein can all be found well under $20, some under $15.

Cheers,

LL

[Red Bigot]

Maybe it's a bit early yet for the best wines, but the judges at the NWS were quite unimpressed with the 2007 Riesling class, don't think there was a Gold awarded.

[n4sir]

What's with Riesling prices in the last 6 months?

Lots of wines that used to be in the $16 - $17 range and occasionally reduced are now up to $23???

Obviously there are some bargains still around but a lot of wines have jumped 33% or more in a very short period.

Is this the start of the grape shortage from 2007 hitting prices?

Or is it all marketing departments in big corporations playing games. A couple of the wines I have noticed have had another brand introduced underneath it.

There are a few I've noticed but the example I'll use is Bin 7.

Was generally about $16 last year now $23. Leasingham now have 2 Rieslings under it and I assume still the Classic Clare above it. Has it improved $7 a bottle in quality, has it replaced Classic Clare or is it all marketing or is it prices rising due to the 2007 harvest?

I reckon the vintage conditions probably has little to do with this - a big part of this is the big grocery retailers increasing their margins.

The wineries increasing their prices on a label by introducing another below it/over it is nothing new either (and it's not only the big corporates who do it), although it usually occurs when there's an excess of supply. I bought up this same topic well over two years ago (in regard to reds):

http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=2589

Cheers,
Ian

[Ratcatcher]

I think you may be right about the grocery chains increasing margins. I have noticed a few wines have gone up at the grocery chains including this one but a couple of the better and more competitive independents here in Hobart have upped the price to $22+ as well.

I guess I was talking locally but I had checked a different e-tailer for price before posting this and they had $23 as well which prompted me to write the message.

I realised lots could still be found at $16 but had noticed a price shift on a few wines and a significant shift at that and then wondered if those selling the $16 wines still had leftover stock from previous vintages and when new vintages arrived whether they would be increasing too.

I guess that was the question I was asking; was the new vintage starting to cause a price rise on Riesling and would that carry over to other whites and reds as they were released, not could I search around and find good prices for Rieslings if I really wanted to.

[roughred]

There may have also been some older stock of the Bin 7 floating about...Boccaccio lists the 02 Riesling in the mid twenties.

LL

[Ratcatcher]

Now that you mentioned their name that's where I looked. Maybe I didn't check the vintage.

Here in Hobart we've had quite a few Rieslings slip up over the $20 mark in the last 3-6 months. Maybe it's just a bit of price fixing locally between the retailers. Just joking.

But we've got Bin 7, Richmond Grove, Mitchell, Pewsey Vale, Knappstein up over $20 and they were all planted firmly at $16 - $18 only 6 months ago. Drumborg is $34 and Pikes standard Riesling is $25.

I thought that Bin 7 at Boccaccio was evidence that it was a nationwide trend. My bad.

[Matthew Moate]

Redbigot, not sure what was presented in the 2007 Riesling Class. But I'd have to say if you get a chance try the Karra Yerta Rieslings from the Barsossa Valley. The 2006 was awarded 94 Points by Philip White and he also rated the 2007 94++ points and was recently quoted int he Barossa Herald that this was one of his top 4 whites that he has tried in 2007. Closely behind the genious of Ben Jeanneret with thei Big Fine Girl and Doozie rieslings which was his highest rated whites ever. They recnetly had a tasting day up their with friends Old Mill Estate who also had some fantastic Rose and Cabernet into the mix and it was an absolute blast. Well recommend both of these producers.

[Red Bigot]

Entrants in the class had to have won a medal in a Capital city wine show to be eligible for entry. I'm only reporting the judging comments, I didn't taste any of them and I won't be following up your kind (but quite misguided) suggestions of whites for me to try.

Results will be released tomorrow, not sure when they will be online.

[Old Salt]

Maybe it's a bit early yet for the best wines, but the judges at the NWS were quite unimpressed with the 2007 Riesling class, don't think there was a Gold awarded.

Courier Mail in Brisbane had an item about ten days ago, results of the Canberra show held last month can be found on

http://www.rieslingchallenge.com/site/2007_results.php

for those that are interested. Points only, no tasting notes.

[Matthew Moate]

Thanks Brian for the clarification on the entry requirements. I don't quite understand your comments regarding my misguided recommendations. I was just suggesting some nice rieslings that I've recently come across and backed it up with a wine writers opinion also. I understand your a red drinker and didn't mean to offend by suggesting you sink a rielsing... Confused... It's been a long day!

[Red Bigot]

Sorry for the confusion, but yeah, that's the misguided bit, suggesting I try some "nice rieslings". You should know better by now.

I haven't even bothered to try the riesling that was judged best wine of the show, although I was sort of curious, maybe there will be some left today (Exhibitor and Trade tasting day).

[Matthew Moate]

No worries. All okay. But those other readers of this topic may be interested. This supplier actually has three releases of their Riesling being 05, 06 and 07 and are all quite different. Any tasting groups could easily do a vertical on this small supplier by grabbing a few bottles of each. All have been rated 94 point or above by Philip White.

[Red Bigot]

I wasn't commenting on what others might like, only as your reply applied to me.

I did try the Show-winning Peter Lehmann Reserve Riesling 2002 and have to admit it didn't do a lot for me. If that's what a nicely aged premium riesling is all about, I'm happy for the rest of you to drink it all, it's probably a bargain at just over $20.

Edit: I don't think the 2002 is actually released yet and the 2001 is $40 from Peter Lehmann, so the wine-searcher listing I saw for the 2002 may be a mistake.

BTW Matthew, it might be a good idea to check with Gavin before you post specifically on wines that you sell, even where Gavin doesn't sell the wines.

[Matthew Moate]

Hey Brian, thanks for the advertising, now hopefully people will buy this wine from me rather than the other e-tailer that sells it along with the cellar door. Thanks for pointing this out to all the readers.

I was not at all trying to hijack this thread, forum or the associated e-store or be seen to be spamming. I was writing genuinely about a wine I like! Infact, I would recommend that Gavin gets this wine in as I want to see this brand (as with all the other brands I sell) succeed. Competition is good.

I made a conscious effort not to try and upset anyone with this thread and I have explained this in a PM to Gavin and I am sure he will understand. Ofcourse, if I try a wine and like it I am going to list it and going to want to talk about it. I think by now everyone knows that I am in the business and I don't want to have to start every thread with a disclaimer.

Are you suggesting that I can't discuss wines I enjoy because I sell them?

[Red Bigot]

Are you suggesting that I can't discuss wines I enjoy because I sell them?

That's up to Gavin, it's his site, that's why I suggested you check with him.

It's usual forum practice to note your commercial interest in a wine you post about.

[Matthew Moate]

I feel like giving up. If in the past I say I sell this wine and then comment I get told I can't do that. If I write about a wine, keeping all reference to retailers out of it, that I enjoy (and hapen to sell along with other retailers along with cellar door) I'm also told I'm doing the wrong thing... I just want to talk about wines and again I reiterate that I don't care where people buy this wine from but they should get some... I am going to write about wines I enjoy and I don't think I should be penalised because I sell them also. That is unfair.

[Nayan]

Are you suggesting that I can't discuss wines I enjoy because I sell them?

That's up to Gavin, it's his site, that's why I suggested you check with him.

It's usual forum practice to note your commercial interest in a wine you post about.

I'm puzzled about this too... So is Matthew supposed to reveal that he sells a wine, or is he not supposed to post on any wines he sells?

How is it OK for wineries to post about their wines; when they can also be bought either through themselves online, or through their cellar door?

[roughred]

Talk about thread drift...

FWIW I would fully expect anyone ITB to note a vested interest when talking about a particular wine.

Particularly in this instance when the post is not directly related to the original topic, and the author does not note any personal thoughts on the wines, but simply refers to third party endorsements.

LL

[Matthew Moate]

Hey Roughred, I understand that this was a thread drift. To answer the original question I would agree that the smaller boutique suppliers will be inreasing their prices with 2007 releases and this is related to the smaller crops. It will be in the whites that we first see any movement in prices as these wines are released before the reds on most occasions.

In relation to my discussion on me posting about a wine I like there are few points I'd like to clarify:

1. In the past I've noted for a wine Gavin doesn't sell that I sell it along with three other retailers, spoke about it and got blasted for that.

2. On this occasions I kept possible retailers (including myself) out of it and again I've been told this is the wrong thing.

3. I enjoyed these wines and didn't offer my own personal TN on them but instead backed up my personal recommendation with an independant reviewers scores of the wine. Yes, I have had all three of the vintages. The 2005 is in a lull at the mo' as all good ageing rieslings do. The 2006 has a bit of kero which is something I like and has a bit more depth and structure that I prefer. The '07 is completely different again though with some more acid and freshness but still all three have great ageing potential and structure. All display classic lime and lemon. Honeydew undertones and crisp acid is what drives these wines that are made from grapes handpicked of old bushvine 75-80 year old vines high up in the Barossa Valley.

Again, re writing about wines I like and also sell I am not sure what I should do...

[dazza1968]

Hey has any one tried the rockford reisling ? I havent and really just wondered what they are like

[griff]

Hey has any one tried the rockford reisling ? I havent and really just wondered what they are like

Had both of them. Hard to say which I prefer. The Eden handles the ripe picked heavyweight style with balancing crispness and length. The Vine Vale is an early drinker in general with less acid but its not the worse for it. Just have to know that is the situation. I think I have a 98 or 99 Vine vale back in Sydney that I want to have a look at actually.

cheers

Carl

[Ian S]

Suggest we move the ITB discussion into the thread Nayan has just started. I think agreeing a simple basis for declaring interests would be in everyone's interest and hopefully that thread will achieve it.

regards

Ian

[Matthew Moate]

I was really pleased to see a further endorsement of the quality of the Karra Yerta riesling at Winorama with another 94 point score. Well done Karra Yerta!

It was interesting to see it against the perhaps more well known Henschke Lenswood Green’s Hill Riesling 2007 which is at a similar price bracket. I look forward to trying the Henschke when next up at Yalumba...

Has anyone else had the Henschke and can offer their opinion?

[kwine]

I found 00 and 02 watervale richmond grove ( in stelvin) in dan murphys munno para at 11.99 the other day .
I bought several of each and the 02 is drinking superbly and am going back to stock up

cheers

kem