As the topic says, how or which way do you guys store your wine to make sure it keeps the consistency over the years?
The Oz condition especially in Melbourne can vary from day to day so how would you cope with storing wine in the average Oz homes?
Also on another topic but still related would anyone recommend buying a wine chiller?
How do you cellar your wine?
Hi and welcome to the forum.
This is a topic that has come up a lot in the past. It is worthwhile to use the search function with words such as 'cellar' ' wine storage' 'active' passive' and you will turn up a few threads on this topic.
I for one have a passive cellar back in Sydney. It does get a bit warm with it once hitting just over 20 degrees a couple of years ago or so during two weeks of high temperatures but generally it does very well with minimal daily variation.
Perth is another story
cheers
Carl
This is a topic that has come up a lot in the past. It is worthwhile to use the search function with words such as 'cellar' ' wine storage' 'active' passive' and you will turn up a few threads on this topic.
I for one have a passive cellar back in Sydney. It does get a bit warm with it once hitting just over 20 degrees a couple of years ago or so during two weeks of high temperatures but generally it does very well with minimal daily variation.
Perth is another story
cheers
Carl
Bartenders are supposed to have people skills. Or was it people are supposed to have bartending skills?
Im in Auckland, NZ. Store most of mine in a wardrobe but have a wine fridge for the best and more delicate styles (top pinot, champagne etc)
I havent had any issue with my ambient storage, although over summer it probably moves a bit into the 'not ideal' zone.
I havent had any issue with my ambient storage, although over summer it probably moves a bit into the 'not ideal' zone.
Follow me on Vivino for tasting notes Craig Thomson
If you think of storing 50-100 bottles, then I think buying a temperature and humidity controlled wine fridge is a good idea. It doesn't require that much space and you can place it anywhere in the house. However, this needs a strict buying/drinking regime as your limited by the capacity of the fridge. I guess this is a problem for most wine enthusiasts. It can be solved by only keeping the long term storage wines in the fridge of course (as Craig mentions). If you have a room in the house that doesn't experience too much heat (above ~19C) or quick temperature changes, that might be a good place for cellaring the wine. However, I haven't got a clue whether this is a possibility in the general Aus home. I'm actually a bit worried about this as I've bought a good deal of bottles that I'm keeping in the room in the house where I think there is the least temperature variation. I'll take these bottles with me home to Norway in a years time where the cellaring conditions are perf. I just hope the wine survives the relatively hot and dry summer here in Adelaide.
Gustav the Norwegian
"Progress is not achieved without deviation from the norm" - Frank Zappa
"Progress is not achieved without deviation from the norm" - Frank Zappa
Gustav wrote:If you think of storing 50-100 bottles, then I think buying a temperature and humidity controlled wine fridge is a good idea. It doesn't require that much space and you can place it anywhere in the house. However, this needs a strict buying/drinking regime as your limited by the capacity of the fridge. I guess this is a problem for most wine enthusiasts. It can be solved by only keeping the long term storage wines in the fridge of course (as Craig mentions). If you have a room in the house that doesn't experience too much heat (above ~19C) or quick temperature changes, that might be a good place for cellaring the wine. However, I haven't got a clue whether this is a possibility in the general Aus home. I'm actually a bit worried about this as I've bought a good deal of bottles that I'm keeping in the room in the house where I think there is the least temperature variation. I'll take these bottles with me home to Norway in a years time where the cellaring conditions are perf. I just hope the wine survives the relatively hot and dry summer here in Adelaide.
Tricks that can help. Increase heat inertia. Place wines as close as possible to an INTERNAL wall. Keep in cardboard box (the street people are right - cardboard is an excellent insulator). If in a cupboard place insulation material e.g. polystyrene over the top.
cheers
Carl
Bartenders are supposed to have people skills. Or was it people are supposed to have bartending skills?
If a proper cellar or wine fridge aren't options for you (like me) I have found polystyrene boxes in a room with no walls to the exterior of the house do the trick. You can usually fit about 15-20 bottles per box and rapid temp variation is nullified to a large extent by the polystyrene. Accessability is an issue but all the stuff I have boxed up is at leats 5 years from drinking... by which time I hope to have my own cellar... wife permitting!
BTW, there is not a thing I can do about humidity except try and buy stelvins wherever possible.
BTW, there is not a thing I can do about humidity except try and buy stelvins wherever possible.
Re: How do you cellar your wine?
Red Red Wine wrote:The Oz condition especially in Melbourne can vary from day to day...
Don't you mean from hour to hour or 4 seasons in one day?
This is how I cellar my wine: http://redbigot.info/Cellar/cellar1.html
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
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Red Red Wine
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:55 pm
All very good advices thanks.
I also had a look at the search and have been reading up on the topic also.
For me I'm a modest drinker and i haven't got any wines that are exceptional , I usually buy wines that are in the medium to lower market (bin389, wynns riddoch) and have a 5 year drinking rotation, but it is still a good idea to buy a fridge to keep maybe about 40 bottles then, and keep the rest in my closet.
From what I've been reading up on, you fellas sure spend a lot of money on storage and wine rooms, but then again you guys have really expensive wine also.
I also had a look at the search and have been reading up on the topic also.
For me I'm a modest drinker and i haven't got any wines that are exceptional , I usually buy wines that are in the medium to lower market (bin389, wynns riddoch) and have a 5 year drinking rotation, but it is still a good idea to buy a fridge to keep maybe about 40 bottles then, and keep the rest in my closet.
From what I've been reading up on, you fellas sure spend a lot of money on storage and wine rooms, but then again you guys have really expensive wine also.
Red Red Wine wrote:From what I've been reading up on, you fellas sure spend a lot of money on storage and wine rooms, but then again you guys have really expensive wine also.
Yeah, some people spend a lot on fancy racking etc, mine is mostly populated with ex-guvvy bookcases and Bunnings self-assemble racks for cases. If the next owner of the house doesn't want a cellar, the room could become a home office, entertainment room or home gym, it has a separate entrance at the front of the house.
Re expensive wine (per bottle), not in my case, a total of 7 bottles of Grange, but most of the rest was bought under $50pb (average about $35) and a small proportion $50-$100, I've just got a lot of it as I generally like the reds I buy at around 7-10 yo.
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Most of my wine is in a temperature and humidity controlled purpose built facility. I find that this is also the best way to prevent myself touching the stuff that should be sleeping for alot longer. Dinner parties were disastrous prior to this, as access to the cellar was way too easy, and much stock could be quickly demolished.....
Cheers,
Monghead
Cheers,
Monghead
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Daryl Douglas
- Posts: 1361
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:23 pm
- Location: Nth Qld
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Daryl Douglas
- Posts: 1361
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:23 pm
- Location: Nth Qld
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bacchaebabe
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Sydney
I've got a dedicated cellar in the house. One of the main reason we bought the house - that and the double garage. Double garages are very rare in my suburb. Probably moreso than cellars!
It's passive although I used to run a wine aircon unit but the cost for the result was hardly worth it. It's four metres by four metres and is bursting at the seams. The temp ranges from about 15 - 20 over the year. Daily variation is minimal unless I'm in there for hours with the lights on. Even then, it's only the ambiant temp and not the wine temp that changes. Takes a lot more than me in there for a couple of hours to increase the temperature of that much wine.
I have a thermometer in a bottle filled with water to track the wine temp as well as min/max digital thermometers to check ambiant temps.
For storage I have a range of powdercoated metal racks, wooden dozen bins, a tasting table and government bookcases. It's a bit of a mishmash but works well. I want to get one more wooden dozen rack as I find these fit the most in (and do look the best).
It's an evil habit that sucks up most of my money!
It's passive although I used to run a wine aircon unit but the cost for the result was hardly worth it. It's four metres by four metres and is bursting at the seams. The temp ranges from about 15 - 20 over the year. Daily variation is minimal unless I'm in there for hours with the lights on. Even then, it's only the ambiant temp and not the wine temp that changes. Takes a lot more than me in there for a couple of hours to increase the temperature of that much wine.
I have a thermometer in a bottle filled with water to track the wine temp as well as min/max digital thermometers to check ambiant temps.
For storage I have a range of powdercoated metal racks, wooden dozen bins, a tasting table and government bookcases. It's a bit of a mishmash but works well. I want to get one more wooden dozen rack as I find these fit the most in (and do look the best).
It's an evil habit that sucks up most of my money!
Cheers,
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
[quote="Red Red Wine"]
For me I'm a modest drinker and i haven't got any wines that are exceptional , I usually buy wines that are in the medium to lower market (bin389, wynns riddoch) quote]
I guess it's all relative but 389 and especially John Riddoch I'd consider a step up from medium to lower market! That and there are tons of wines in the 'lower' market that reward careful cellaring.
For me I'm a modest drinker and i haven't got any wines that are exceptional , I usually buy wines that are in the medium to lower market (bin389, wynns riddoch) quote]
I guess it's all relative but 389 and especially John Riddoch I'd consider a step up from medium to lower market! That and there are tons of wines in the 'lower' market that reward careful cellaring.
Cheers
Wayno
Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities.
Wayno
Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities.
Gustav wrote:If you think of storing 50-100 bottles, then I think buying a temperature and humidity controlled wine fridge is a good idea. It doesn't require that much space and you can place it anywhere in the house. However, this needs a strict buying/drinking regime as your limited by the capacity of the fridge. I guess this is a problem for most wine enthusiasts. It can be solved by only keeping the long term storage wines in the fridge of course (as Craig mentions). If you have a room in the house that doesn't experience too much heat (above ~19C) or quick temperature changes, that might be a good place for cellaring the wine. However, I haven't got a clue whether this is a possibility in the general Aus home. I'm actually a bit worried about this as I've bought a good deal of bottles that I'm keeping in the room in the house where I think there is the least temperature variation. I'll take these bottles with me home to Norway in a years time where the cellaring conditions are perf. I just hope the wine survives the relatively hot and dry summer here in Adelaide.
Gustav,
There are a number of professional outfits in and around Adelaide that offer temperature and humidity controlled wine storage. I used to use Kennard's in Thebarton when I lived in town. Geln Ewin Estate also offer a managed cellaring service, I believe.
Cheers,
Nayan
wine cellar
I live in Perth and have an old portugese house built on limestone so after 70 trailer loads of dirt HEY Presto i had a 6mtr by 4 mtr room with a kick arse 125mm thick oregon door on it , sits at 18 all the time mind you i did put in an air cond and thats just ensures its all good ! I love it but its an expensive hobbie 
i had a 6mtr by 4 mtr room with a kick arse 125mm thick oregon door on it , sits at 18 all the time mind you i did put in an air cond and thats just ensures its all good ! I love it but its an expensive hobbie Some people slurp it,others swill it,a few sip on it,some gaze at it for hours ,enough now wheres the RED
I had the perfect spot when I first started collecting. It was an old 4 drawer chest in the en suite that my wife by surprise emptied and 'allowed' me to have. It held 60 bottles and was in an 'interior room' that was on the mostly shaded part of the house. Once I outgrew that and listened to all the advice about polystyrene boxes, storing under the house etc, etc, I decided to hire out space at Fort Knox. They have a purpose built subterranean cellar which caters for various collection sizes. It's on my way home from work and my favorite merchant. It can hold up to 300 bottles. I've put some Bordex racking up one side and to me it's brilliant. Kids get a kick out of it too when I go to grab or add. For the peace of mind (which is the main reason why I took this option) and the fact that it's away from home and temptation, works perfect for me.
And Red Red Wine, don't think that everyone who jumps on has massive collections. We all love wine and everyone has collections that they can afford. According to my RB Cellarmaster I have 115 bottles at an average value of $40. Some expensive, some 20's, some great value classics.
Hands down, a storage facility works for me. If it takes money away from my buying budget, so be it. Collecting and maturing wine is a slow process just like my beloved Collingwood winning a Premiership.
Cheers all,
Dr - 307.
And Red Red Wine, don't think that everyone who jumps on has massive collections. We all love wine and everyone has collections that they can afford. According to my RB Cellarmaster I have 115 bottles at an average value of $40. Some expensive, some 20's, some great value classics.
Hands down, a storage facility works for me. If it takes money away from my buying budget, so be it. Collecting and maturing wine is a slow process just like my beloved Collingwood winning a Premiership.
Cheers all,
Dr - 307.
"No need to over-analyse. Good tish is good tish!" - Dr 307.
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craig loves shiraz
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:21 pm
One of the best "cellars" I ever saw was at a friends place.
They'd recently done a renovation in the kitchen and removed the old chimney/hearth in which an old woof fired oven was situated. When they got down to the floor level, they found a double brick structure (The base of the chimney) that was about 2m wide by 1.5m and about 1m deep. Instead of removing completley, they left it at floor level and installed wine racks and a small ladder. On top they put a glass cover that you could walk over.
So now, they can "walk" into their cellar from the kitchen by simply lifting the door and stepping inside. It has 3 sides covered in wine racks and at last count, was storing about 25 dozen (300) with a bit of room to go!
It's not perfect conditions, but it never gets above 24-25 degrees C and never does below about 8 degrees C. And apart from all that, it's quite the feature of the house!
They'd recently done a renovation in the kitchen and removed the old chimney/hearth in which an old woof fired oven was situated. When they got down to the floor level, they found a double brick structure (The base of the chimney) that was about 2m wide by 1.5m and about 1m deep. Instead of removing completley, they left it at floor level and installed wine racks and a small ladder. On top they put a glass cover that you could walk over.
So now, they can "walk" into their cellar from the kitchen by simply lifting the door and stepping inside. It has 3 sides covered in wine racks and at last count, was storing about 25 dozen (300) with a bit of room to go!
It's not perfect conditions, but it never gets above 24-25 degrees C and never does below about 8 degrees C. And apart from all that, it's quite the feature of the house!
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craig loves shiraz
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:21 pm
Dr - 307 wrote:I thought 24-25C is disastrous for wine especially when it can get all the way down to 8C.
Dr - 307.
Hell of a lot better than the -5 and 40 that it could be exposed to in this particular region (North east Vic).
So unless you want to be a complete environmental vandal and run a cool room 24/7/365, this is a pretty good solution.
Hell of a lot better than the -5 and 40 that it could be exposed to in this particular region (North east Vic).
Know what you mean. I was gonna store my wines under the house but I was worried about the temp fluctuations so I opted to hire out space. I would still be worried if I was in your friends situation though. But they're happy with their cellar and that's what it's all about.
Cheers,
Dr - 307.
"No need to over-analyse. Good tish is good tish!" - Dr 307.
I have just invested in a Kitchener 430btl wine "fridge". I havn't received it yet so I can't comment on its capabilities.
Last summer I kept a max - min thermometer in the internal room I keep my 300+ wines and the flutuation of temp. was about 17-20C overnight to 25-28C during the day. This room has no external walls, R3.0 batts in the ceiling although the house is open plan.
The fridge is about $5k but my wines are about $10k and growing so I think the investment is worth it. It will spend it life in the garage. The "cellar" will remain in the house for wines nearing consumption and the el cheapo quaffers and cooking wines plus my wifes sav blancs.
Cheerio
Bill
Last summer I kept a max - min thermometer in the internal room I keep my 300+ wines and the flutuation of temp. was about 17-20C overnight to 25-28C during the day. This room has no external walls, R3.0 batts in the ceiling although the house is open plan.
The fridge is about $5k but my wines are about $10k and growing so I think the investment is worth it. It will spend it life in the garage. The "cellar" will remain in the house for wines nearing consumption and the el cheapo quaffers and cooking wines plus my wifes sav blancs.
Cheerio
Bill
I would agree with many of the comments above
Best to some web research - my cellar - under house in insulated room, no cooling (yet), due to knowing the variation ... see below.
However, what I bought first was a simple digital TEMP / HUMIDITY meter,
with a memory (highest / lowest) and a separate probe (you seal in a dummy wine bottle (with water) to have inside temp of your wine as well as the ambient tem / humidity.
I found this on the WEB at http://www.uncork.com.au/au_order_accessory.htm - around A$70, many other interesting items, including a simple software package I use.
Regards Geoff
Best to some web research - my cellar - under house in insulated room, no cooling (yet), due to knowing the variation ... see below.
However, what I bought first was a simple digital TEMP / HUMIDITY meter,
with a memory (highest / lowest) and a separate probe (you seal in a dummy wine bottle (with water) to have inside temp of your wine as well as the ambient tem / humidity. I found this on the WEB at http://www.uncork.com.au/au_order_accessory.htm - around A$70, many other interesting items, including a simple software package I use.
Regards Geoff
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Red Red Wine
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:55 pm
Wayno wrote:Red Red Wine wrote:
For me I'm a modest drinker and i haven't got any wines that are exceptional , I usually buy wines that are in the medium to lower market (bin389, wynns riddoch) quote]
I guess it's all relative but 389 and especially John Riddoch I'd consider a step up from medium to lower market! That and there are tons of wines in the 'lower' market that reward careful cellaring.
so what would you consider to be good lower wine?
RRW,
If we take 389, John Riddoch et al as 'medium range' then I would suggest the following small selection are good to excellent cellaring examples in the 'lower range'
All in selected vintages:
- Wynns Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon
- Saltram Mamre Brook Cabernet Sauvignon
- Seppelt Moyston Cabernet
- Peter Lehmann Shiraz
- Penfolds Bin 28 Shiraz
- Grant Burge Filsell Shiraz
- Henschke Euphonium
- Seppelt Chalambar Shiraz
and I could easily go on, all of these being $15-20, some $25ish+ and all offering excellent cellaring potential. They're mostly 'corporate' brands above but there are loads of others.
Whilst I have a fair share of the '$50ish' flagship style icon thingamijigs in my collection (my bank statement is damning evidence of that), the backbone of it is probably made up of this sort of price range, QPR cellaring specials and invariably they offer much reward, often outpacing some of the more expensive wines which are so often more bark than bite.
If we take 389, John Riddoch et al as 'medium range' then I would suggest the following small selection are good to excellent cellaring examples in the 'lower range'
All in selected vintages:
- Wynns Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon
- Saltram Mamre Brook Cabernet Sauvignon
- Seppelt Moyston Cabernet
- Peter Lehmann Shiraz
- Penfolds Bin 28 Shiraz
- Grant Burge Filsell Shiraz
- Henschke Euphonium
- Seppelt Chalambar Shiraz
and I could easily go on, all of these being $15-20, some $25ish+ and all offering excellent cellaring potential. They're mostly 'corporate' brands above but there are loads of others.
Whilst I have a fair share of the '$50ish' flagship style icon thingamijigs in my collection (my bank statement is damning evidence of that), the backbone of it is probably made up of this sort of price range, QPR cellaring specials and invariably they offer much reward, often outpacing some of the more expensive wines which are so often more bark than bite.
Cheers
Wayno
Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities.
Wayno
Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities.