Port in Barrels!

Scoobth · Post by **Scoobth** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:26 pm

Hello, Im new here!

I did a bit of searching through the threads on this forum and couldnt find anything that helped me. I had a look around the web an found bits here and there, but I thought I was best off asking the experts (thats all of you)

I am looking at purchasing a barrel to fill with port (something around the 10L in size range) Im just not sure where the best place to buy one of these items is. Most I have seen advertised on the internet seem to be around the $200 mark, but there are also some cheaper ones. I guess my main questions are as follows:

What timber do you recomend the barrel be made of (french or america oak)?

Where would you recomend buying one from? Where did you get yours? (im in Adelaide SA)

Is it better to have a big one or a small one (5L - 25L)?

Im also looking at signing up to Oddbins auctions, but id prefer not to if they dont have any barrels going through there. Is anyone currently a member able to suggest my chances on there and prices that secondhand ones may go for?

Any other advice would be most welcome! Thankyou all.

graham · Post by **graham** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:36 am

Depends on the port you wish to put in.
Wine cellar designs sell the casks you are after.
http://winecellardesigns.com.au/catalog/

Scoobth · Post by **Scoobth** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:27 am

Hi Graham. Thanks for the link I have not looked at those guys yet, the look like they have a huge range of accessories. The kegs they have listed look the same type as everyone else has been selling. Does anyone have one of these? how good is the tap/valve on them?

I have herd of some Aust made kegs using gas valves on the tap so as to stop drips.

mattECN · Post by **mattECN** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:40 am

hi there,

I'd highly recommend the The Keg Factory in Tanunda, speak to Glenn the Cooper there (very friendly bloke). After much research myself, I recently purchased a 9L one from him for a mate, very good service. He's pretty popular, there might be a wait if you want one.

I understand that he sources all his oak from old fortified barrels ex Rutherglen, and there are different tap styles available.

good luck.

markg · Post by **markg** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:34 am

I went through all this years ago and now have two happy barrels sitting around pouring port from one and muscat from another.

There is a keg place opposide St Hallets winery, can't remember what it is called but that is where I got both mine.

Wayne Dutschke (winemaker and a VERY GOOD port and muscat maker) explained parts of the process about blending port in these barrels. DONOT pour any old crap into your barrels, I ignored this advice in the beginning and got very average port out. Use only good base material, ie. Bulk port from Seppelts or Leibich or Muscat from rutherglen and top it up with the same or similar stuff, don't put old tawny ports that you get at auction in the barrels it will stuff up the flavour.

My port barrel started out with Leibichs and now I top it up with Seppelts, I drink from it occassionally and draw the odd bottle off as a present. After about 3 or 4 years; It is viscous, lucsious, sweet and just gorgeous.... The muscat is fantastic.... mmmmm

graham · Post by **graham** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:12 am

You've got me considering this course of action

A few technical questions...
How often do you top it up ?
Ever top up the port with brandy ?
Store in Cellar ?
Does it improve the flavour that much ?

markg · Post by **markg** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:15 am

graham wrote:You've got me considering this course of action
A few technical questions...
How often do you top it up ?
Ever top up the port with brandy ?
Store in Cellar ?
Does it improve the flavour that much ?

I top it up when it starts getting a bit low, especially during hot weather. I bought a 20 litre bulk port from seppelts in a plastic (inert) container a few years ago and top it up from that. Use young/fresh port (5 year old material) and let it age in your barrel, if you want a quick bit of age, add a teaspoon only of aged material.

Brandy - NEVER !!

Stored in the house - no problem.

My mistakes led me to having port that tasted dusty and now I recognise as stale (although at the time I didin't) and compared with what my port tastes like now is a vaaaaaaast improvement.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:26 pm

I've got a muscat barrell, that was given to me (empty) as a present about five years ago. Initially filled with young Morris (6-8 years), I could have picked my teeth from the oak that imparted initially. Only after I was able to draw it down significantly (it took a lot of drinking

) was I able to get it in balance.

I've added some older material (bottle of Seppelt Grand) which gave it a lot of complexity to offset the youth of the base material.

I haven't drawn down for about six months, thanks for the reminder .....

Cheers Mark

Scoobth · Post by **Scoobth** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:36 pm

The more I read of your stories and tips the more excited I am about getting my own! Thankyou all for the information!

Any new barrel seasoning tips would be nice.
Also if its used and has for example stale port in it from a bad mix, what is the best way to clean the insides without ruining the barrel?

Nayan · Post by **Nayan** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:45 pm

Scoobth wrote:The more I read of your stories and tips the more excited I am about getting my own! Thankyou all for the information!

Any new barrel seasoning tips would be nice.
Also if its used and has for example stale port in it from a bad mix, what is the best way to clean the insides without ruining the barrel?

Fill with warm water (about 60C) and leave overnight. Allows you to check for leaks too. If there are any leaks then knock the hoops down a bit.

If the barrel already has port in it that is acetic (smells vinegary), then I'd convert it into a flower pot and get a new one.

markg · Post by **markg** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:57 pm

Scoobth wrote:The more I read of your stories and tips the more excited I am about getting my own! Thankyou all for the information!

Any new barrel seasoning tips would be nice.
Also if its used and has for example stale port in it from a bad mix, what is the best way to clean the insides without ruining the barrel?

You should get seasoning tips from the place you buy it from. If I remember correctly, I filled it with a cheap, young port, left it for a while, it got really oaky then I drained it all off (kept the drained off stuff and gave it away for presents and for chugging by the camp fire with friends) then started it properly.

markg · Post by **markg** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:58 pm

Nayan wrote:
Scoobth wrote:The more I read of your stories and tips the more excited I am about getting my own! Thankyou all for the information!

Any new barrel seasoning tips would be nice.
Also if its used and has for example stale port in it from a bad mix, what is the best way to clean the insides without ruining the barrel?

Fill with warm water (about 60C) and leave overnight. Allows you to check for leaks too. If there are any leaks then knock the hoops down a bit.

If the barrel already has port in it that is acetic (smells vinegary), then I'd convert it into a flower pot and get a new one.

Now I remember, yes... you use water to swell the wood or something... like I said, if you buy it from a good location they will have a booklet all about seasoning etc.

Scoobth · Post by **Scoobth** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:09 pm

markg wrote:... like I said, if you buy it from a good location they will have a booklet all about seasoning etc.

See thats the trick, I was looking at possibly buying one from an auction (where clearly I wouldnt get much useful information) ... so it may already be pre seasoned but im still not 100% sure what im doing...

I still may go the way of a brand new one, where I will most likley go to The Keg Factory in tanunda (as suggested by mattECN). As I said, undecided as yet, still doing as much research as possible.

markg · Post by **markg** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:15 pm

Scoobth wrote:See thats the trick, I was looking at possibly buying one from an auction (where clearly I wouldnt get much useful information) ...

Yes, those xxxx auction places are all the same ! :wink:

dkw · Post by **dkw** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:16 pm

We were given a small barrel from Schmeider's Cooperage in Bundaberg, Qld. They're on the web, complete with price lists.

As others have noted, and experience has demonstrated, it really matters what you put into it. It certainly won't make bad port good, but developing your own special blend is an interesting process.

Good luck with finding a barrel.

Dave.

rednut · Post by **rednut** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:51 am

Scoobth,

My mates Dad makes them for the Keg Factory on the way to Rowland Flat. The kegs are first class and attention to detail is excellent.
I have organised 7 through them now and all have had no problems or leaks.

They range from size and shape, eg: 10l, 14l, 20l, in oval or round and rustic or normal design.
Also you can get burning done on the front in any design or pattern. I got one a month ago for my brother in law, a 20l oval, rustic hoops with his name burnt in the front of it.
You can purchase a little keg half which hangs to catch drips on the tap and also they come with a little keg on a dipstick to check levels.

When filling definately fill with clean water for 24 hours and then drain.
I filled mine when I purchased it some years ago with Seppelts Old Trafford port but you cant buy that in bulk anymore only 750ml bottles which is a bit pricey.

I now use port from Heritage Wines in Marananga through a friend who works there.

I improve mine by putting a bottle of Morris Show Muscat in with it which makes it delicious, but never use spirits in them, it will ruin the wood.

Liebichs, Grant Burge, Bethany and numerous other wineries do a nice bulk port for around $5 a litre plus container. (I rang them all for my brother not long ago, but he ended up getting port from the Clare Valley while up there. ) The Bethany is very nice and good value.

Any questions feel free to ask

Cheers and happy porting.....

alimunro · Post by **alimunro** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:02 pm

I've also been dabbling with a port barrel over the last 5 years.... great fun. Recently I've been thinking about adding in something a bit older?

Any views on tipping in a glass of 100 year old port to my barrel?

rednut · Post by **rednut** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:25 pm

alimunro wrote:I've also been dabbling with a port barrel over the last 5 years.... great fun. Recently I've been thinking about adding in something a bit older?

Any views on tipping in a glass of 100 year old port to my barrel?

You could add that but it would probably be diluted by the port in the keg and you might not really notice it.

Old muscat is what Ive been recommended by wine makers in the Barossa so thats what I use.

Cant speak for other forum members preferences though.

Scoobth · Post by **Scoobth** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:22 pm

rednut wrote:Scoobth,

My mates Dad makes them for the Keg Factory on the way to Rowland Flat. The kegs are first class and attention to detail is excellent.
I have organised 7 through them now and all have had no problems or leaks.

Thats what I like to hear

I will be headding down to Lyndoch for a retreat for a few nights in the next month, so I will have to hop over to Tanunda while im there. After much mental debate, I think this is the way I am going to go!

(im very excited!!)

uncorked · Post by **uncorked** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:33 pm

Big recommendation again for The Keg Factory (opposite St Hallett wines in the Barossa)

I know a few people who have bought from these guys and their craftmanship is first class.

Like most things, you get what you pay for and the bonus here is you get to talk with the guys who make the barrels and I suspect, drink a fair bit of Port in the name of "research".............So they can give you good advice too!!

Enjoy!

Tim Smith · Post by **Tim Smith** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:22 pm

Look at what the first little bit of cold weather has done, that long forgotten small barrel of fortified is everybody's (myself included) best friend again!!!!
It's been recommended a few times now in this topic, but Glen Schultz at the The Keg Factory, 65633012, St Hallett Rd, Hallett Valley via Tanunda 5352 is the man to speak to.
The problem with small barrels is that your chosen fortified will pick up oak character very quickly (high alcohol/high surface to volume ratio etc) so either drink the young (oaky) blend quickly, or start with decent unoaked base material. Most of the 'bulk port' available sees little if any oak maturation, so it's not a bad start.Definitely no topping up with bottled tawny's; not only are they stale, the slightest hint of cork taint that you dont pick up from the bottle will (potentially) show itself up in your aged blend.
If any reader can advise of any decent 'bulk' muscat or tokay available in the Barossa, I'm looking for some. My 90 litre Octave has had more than it's share of 'the angels share' go missing, so needs topping up..

Scoobth · Post by **Scoobth** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:26 am

Tim Smith wrote:If any reader can advise of any decent 'bulk' muscat or tokay available in the Barossa, I'm looking for some. My 90 litre Octave has had more than it's share of 'the angels share' go missing, so needs topping up..

I hear that morris for a great bulk tawny, thats what I will probably go with on my barrel. Im still not sure weather to go with the 9L or the 15L though. but bulk is so cheap I will probably go for the 15L and let it sit in there for a while.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:51 am

New here please be nice, I have been lurking for a while and appreciate the words of wisdom from this place.
I have 3 5 litre barrels and am waiting to start enjoying each and every one. One has tokay, one muscat and one port, all bulmers bulk. The first two months will be up soon and I will sample each to see how it is all going. Tried a frontenac fortified that was a couple of year in a small barrel and it was amazing.
Aging wines in a small barrel is like gardening without the spade and the rake, patience is required!

Phil

Ian S · Post by **Ian S** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:35 am

filcar wrote:Aging wines in a small barrel is like gardening without the spade and the rake, patience is required!

Phil

Phil
... without even mentioning the slugs, greenfly and moths.

Welcome to the forum and definitely give us your views when the first batch gets tried.

regards

Ian

Nayan · Post by **Nayan** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:39 pm

Tim Smith wrote:If any reader can advise of any decent 'bulk' muscat or tokay available in the Barossa, I'm looking for some. My 90 litre Octave has had more than it's share of 'the angels share' go missing, so needs topping up..

Tim, you might try Liebich Wein. They do a bulk Muscat (and other fortifieds), but not a Tokay.

Regards,

Nayan

(No direct connection; though they are friends)

Scoobth · Post by **Scoobth** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:06 pm

Just to update....

I ended up purchasing a Port Keg from the Keg Factory in Tanunda, and the craftsmanship of the keg is fantastic. The tap is a simple spring pressured brass tap, they have options for different size taps etc andd the kegs also come in many different sizes and shapes ...

I went for a 14 Litre clear finish round oak keg with black rings and medium brass tap.

I just finished preparing the keg (let it sit with water for 24 hours and then rinsed it out a few times) I then put 60-80mls of Brandy in and swished it all around in side (I was told to do this by a friend who has two kegs of his own.... sounded like fun so I did it) Then I added 5 Litres of Illapara Bulk Port, 8 Litres of Morris Bulk Port, and 750mls of Morris Black Bottle Aged Port to help give it a more mature flavour....

Now the worst part... The waiting...

Im still curious as to how a Tawn port ages.... Does it actually Age or just gain a mature flavour from the oak that it is sitting next too... Either way I will find out in a few months

Thanks for reading, and Thankyou all for your help

Scanlon · Post by **Scanlon** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:16 am

Definitely make a trip to Liebich! http://www.liebichwein.com.au

Ron has a gazillion different bulk fortifieds to give you the exact blend you're after, and you can take already blended samples for some feedback and suggestions for what to add to improve it, perk it up etc. (would be best if you called to arrange a time for this).

Pity you didn't post this about a month ago - they just had their 2007 fortified fest with some old old old fortifieds on tasting, and a home barrell comp. was a great day

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:33 pm

Hello All

I am also new here and I think I am asking the question in the right place. If not, please forgive me.

I have just been reading all the above about port and new barrels. I wish I had read it 4 weeks ago. I have just brought a small barrel with a wooden tap. Went through all the soaking it with water to fill the cracks etc. Did well with that bit.

However, once it stopped leaking, I filled it with Wolf Blass Tawny Port. Unfortunately the tap is still leaking ever slow slowly (drip by drip) but more to the point when I tested the contents I was really disappointed. It tasted stale and dusty (if that is the right term) .

Is this just the newness of the barrel, and/or the still of port????

Please help.

Ian

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:49 pm

Hello again....I have just read my own post and realized I must have been drinking too much!

What I meant by my last question is this: is the disappointing taste from the newness of the wood in the barrel. And / or is it the style of port I used.

Also if it is the newness of the barrel, will this mellow in time?

I hope this makes better sense.

Thank you.

Ian

roughred · Post by **roughred** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:40 am

Hi Ian,

A lot can depend on where your barrel came from.

The best barrels (like the keg factory barrels) are traditionally coopered from old seasoned wood. The real deal.

There are a lot of lesser quality barrels available at much more appealing prices that will imbue your finished product with harsh, resinous oaky notes.

Basically you get what you pay for. Same with the contents. An ordinary young fortified won't metamorphosize into something special with a few months in barrel. Buy a quality young fortified from anyone of the Rutherglen or recognised SA fortified producers. Certainly worth the extra time and dollars and you will be repaid many times over.

Cheers,

LL

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