Is there a Sommelier in the house?
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bacchaebabe
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Is there a Sommelier in the house?
After reading today's good living, I was wondering if we have any practising sommeliers in the forum. I know there's plenty of wine makers that pop in but I can't recall anyone ever admitting to being a sommelier. Making it a poll so people can stay anonymous if they wish.
Cheers,
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
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KMP
- Posts: 1246
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:02 am
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No, not a smelly. The article you mention indicated that there are about 350 members of the Victorian chapter of the Australian Sommeliers Association.
Wine Diva lists three Sommelier organisations.
Mike
Wine Diva lists three Sommelier organisations.
Mike
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bacchaebabe
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Sydney
Hmmm, very interesting indeed.
There's been a few write-ups in glossy magazines and other publications about sommeliers recently and I am often struck by their youth, their disdane for wine wankers, their supreme confidence and their supposed knowledge.
I can remember one article where each sommelier was asked to recommend either a cleanskin or a wine under $10 and with the exception of one or two they all said they didn't drink wines like that but many also went on to say they were too young to have a substantial cellar themselves. Left me with the impression they were the wine wankers and also probably not that good at their job. I can certainly understand not having a big wine collection at a young age but found the snobbishness associated with not being able to recommend even one cleanskin or wine under $10 rather strange. It all left me wondering how much they actively sought info too and it's very interesting to see that (as yet) there appears to be no Sommeliers that regularly frequent this forum.
There's been a few write-ups in glossy magazines and other publications about sommeliers recently and I am often struck by their youth, their disdane for wine wankers, their supreme confidence and their supposed knowledge.
I can remember one article where each sommelier was asked to recommend either a cleanskin or a wine under $10 and with the exception of one or two they all said they didn't drink wines like that but many also went on to say they were too young to have a substantial cellar themselves. Left me with the impression they were the wine wankers and also probably not that good at their job. I can certainly understand not having a big wine collection at a young age but found the snobbishness associated with not being able to recommend even one cleanskin or wine under $10 rather strange. It all left me wondering how much they actively sought info too and it's very interesting to see that (as yet) there appears to be no Sommeliers that regularly frequent this forum.
Cheers,
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
Kris
There's a fine wine between pleasure and pain
(Stolen from the graffiti in the ladies loos at Pegasus Bay winery)
bacchaebabe wrote:Hmmm, very interesting indeed.
There's been a few write-ups in glossy magazines and other publications about sommeliers recently and I am often struck by their youth, their disdane for wine wankers, their supreme confidence and their supposed knowledge.
I can remember one article where each sommelier was asked to recommend either a cleanskin or a wine under $10 and with the exception of one or two they all said they didn't drink wines like that but many also went on to say they were too young to have a substantial cellar themselves. Left me with the impression they were the wine wankers and also probably not that good at their job. I can certainly understand not having a big wine collection at a young age but found the snobbishness associated with not being able to recommend even one cleanskin or wine under $10 rather strange. It all left me wondering how much they actively sought info too and it's very interesting to see that (as yet) there appears to be no Sommeliers that regularly frequent this forum.
And if I remember correctly I think it was the only girl in the article that was willing to recommend one. Perhaps slightly less ego and more knowledge than the boys?
cheers
Carl
Bartenders are supposed to have people skills. Or was it people are supposed to have bartending skills?
BB,
I think that you're making an very strong assumption that 'they must not be very good at their jobs' if they can't recommend a $10 bottle of wine. It is really a redundant question to ask what they recommend at that price range, any restaurant that employs a real sommelier is not in the business of selling cheap wine.
While not a som myself, i have a number of friends who are and yes, generally they are young and confident. Why do you doubt their knowledge, is it simply because of age? Walk into any fine dining restaurant in melbourne and you will find passionate and knowledgeable young people who take their jobs and wine very seriously.
Sorry if i sound a defensive, i get very annoyed at the wine world for heaping crap on young people. I've seen to many dismissive fogeys carping on about the 'good old days' and too many winery staff or wine store attendants give young wine drinkers the critical stare or talk to them as if they are stupid.
The fact is, its us young wino's who are driving the wine culture in bars and restaurants in cities like melb and syd and its the young sommeliers at the forefront.
Rant over.
Cheers
Cheyne
I think that you're making an very strong assumption that 'they must not be very good at their jobs' if they can't recommend a $10 bottle of wine. It is really a redundant question to ask what they recommend at that price range, any restaurant that employs a real sommelier is not in the business of selling cheap wine.
While not a som myself, i have a number of friends who are and yes, generally they are young and confident. Why do you doubt their knowledge, is it simply because of age? Walk into any fine dining restaurant in melbourne and you will find passionate and knowledgeable young people who take their jobs and wine very seriously.
Sorry if i sound a defensive, i get very annoyed at the wine world for heaping crap on young people. I've seen to many dismissive fogeys carping on about the 'good old days' and too many winery staff or wine store attendants give young wine drinkers the critical stare or talk to them as if they are stupid.
The fact is, its us young wino's who are driving the wine culture in bars and restaurants in cities like melb and syd and its the young sommeliers at the forefront.
Rant over.
Cheers
Cheyne
rooview wrote:I can imagine putting up with inconsiderate, rude customers, 14 hour shifts, lazy co-staff, crazy managers and low pay would be enough to take the gloss off wine.
No no, thats what drove me to drink!
(it was a different industry I admit)
cheers
Carl
Bartenders are supposed to have people skills. Or was it people are supposed to have bartending skills?
[quote]
There's been a few write-ups in glossy magazines and other publications about sommeliers recently and I am often struck by their youth, their disdane for wine wankers, their supreme confidence and their supposed knowledge.
I can remember one article where each sommelier was asked to recommend either a cleanskin or a wine under $10 and with the exception of one or two they all said they didn't drink wines like that but many also went on to say they were too young to have a substantial cellar themselves. Left me with the impression they were the wine wankers and also probably not that good at their job. I can certainly understand not having a big wine collection at a young age but found the snobbishness associated with not being able to recommend even one cleanskin or wine under $10 rather strange. It all left me wondering how much they actively sought info too and it's very interesting to see that (as yet) there appears to be no Sommeliers that regularly frequent this forum.[/quote]
Got to agree with you here. THe big problem really is that it is a young persons game. As one who spent a decade as a sommelier in Australia and the UK, i realised it had to come to an end as the liver, heart and relationships couldn't cope with the hours at work and the after work wind down.
Since then i've come to realise that there is a a sommelier world, and a real world. Sommy world revolves around a heap of freebies and an inevitable snobbishness. Real world revolves around "can i afford to drink this - and pay the mortgage/ school fees/ etc etc"'
It makes you look a bit more closely at what a good wine and good value a wine really is.
Sommy world helped me benchmark the great wines of the world at someone elses expense - and learn what it was i really liked to drink.
Real world is tracking down these style of wines that i can afford.
And drinking them.
There's been a few write-ups in glossy magazines and other publications about sommeliers recently and I am often struck by their youth, their disdane for wine wankers, their supreme confidence and their supposed knowledge.
I can remember one article where each sommelier was asked to recommend either a cleanskin or a wine under $10 and with the exception of one or two they all said they didn't drink wines like that but many also went on to say they were too young to have a substantial cellar themselves. Left me with the impression they were the wine wankers and also probably not that good at their job. I can certainly understand not having a big wine collection at a young age but found the snobbishness associated with not being able to recommend even one cleanskin or wine under $10 rather strange. It all left me wondering how much they actively sought info too and it's very interesting to see that (as yet) there appears to be no Sommeliers that regularly frequent this forum.[/quote]
Got to agree with you here. THe big problem really is that it is a young persons game. As one who spent a decade as a sommelier in Australia and the UK, i realised it had to come to an end as the liver, heart and relationships couldn't cope with the hours at work and the after work wind down.
Since then i've come to realise that there is a a sommelier world, and a real world. Sommy world revolves around a heap of freebies and an inevitable snobbishness. Real world revolves around "can i afford to drink this - and pay the mortgage/ school fees/ etc etc"'
It makes you look a bit more closely at what a good wine and good value a wine really is.
Sommy world helped me benchmark the great wines of the world at someone elses expense - and learn what it was i really liked to drink.
Real world is tracking down these style of wines that i can afford.
And drinking them.
Cheyne wrote:and too many winery staff or wine store attendants give young wine drinkers the critical stare or talk to them as if they are stupid.
The fact is, its us young wino's who are driving the wine culture in bars and restaurants in cities like melb and syd and its the young sommeliers at the forefront.
Rant over.
I thoroughly agree. I've lost count of the number of times I've walked in to a wine retailer and been treated like an idiot - since I hadn't had a chance to speak, I'm guessing it was because I'm a young guy who doesn't shave every day.
It's amazing how quickly attitudes change once they realize I have some idea what I'm talking about and aren't just looking for cheap plonk to get smashed on. Double takes are common...
Even in Adelaide, young-ish people are driving, following, or being swept up in a massive trend of wine consumption, appreciation, and experimentation at nice bars, and even local pubs. It's good to see!
Steve wrote:Even in Adelaide, young-ish people are driving, following, or being swept up in a massive trend of wine consumption, appreciation, and experimentation at nice bars, and even local pubs. It's good to see!
Adelaide I'd expect. It's a wine town. I'd be more surprised if it was happening in Toowoomba, Broken Hill, Kalgoorlie or Ballarat...
Although I do agree it's foolish to assume that youth = frivolous customer.
cheers,
Graeme
Cheyne wrote:BB,
I think that you're making an very strong assumption that 'they must not be very good at their jobs' if they can't recommend a $10 bottle of wine. It is really a redundant question to ask what they recommend at that price range, any restaurant that employs a real sommelier is not in the business of selling cheap wine.
I think the point that BB is making here is that anyone can suggest a good $100 bottle of wine to go with your dinner, but someone truly passionate about wine (as sommeliers should be) will have a broader knowledge of wine at all price points, regardless of whether those wines are on their list or not.
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KMP
- Posts: 1246
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:02 am
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Another article on sommeliers is here.
The most notable quote for me was:-
As former sommelier of Wildfire, in the Overseas Passenger Terminal, Moechtar was responsible for managing a 3000-bottle cellar worth $250,000. At its peak, there were 650 wines on the list. For that he was paid $70,000 plus tips, "which took my income to about $100,000. That sounds like good money, but you also have a huge responsibility. In one year alone I bought $1 million worth of wine, which I then turned into $6 million of sales. It's your job as a sommelier to use your knowledge of wines to generate revenue."
Ben Moechtar is president of the NSW branch of the Australian Sommeliers' Association!
Never been to Wildfire, and I don't believe I will now. A somms wine knowledge should be used to help the diner select wines to compliment their meal, not make the restaurant a profit.
Mike
The most notable quote for me was:-
As former sommelier of Wildfire, in the Overseas Passenger Terminal, Moechtar was responsible for managing a 3000-bottle cellar worth $250,000. At its peak, there were 650 wines on the list. For that he was paid $70,000 plus tips, "which took my income to about $100,000. That sounds like good money, but you also have a huge responsibility. In one year alone I bought $1 million worth of wine, which I then turned into $6 million of sales. It's your job as a sommelier to use your knowledge of wines to generate revenue."
Ben Moechtar is president of the NSW branch of the Australian Sommeliers' Association!
Never been to Wildfire, and I don't believe I will now. A somms wine knowledge should be used to help the diner select wines to compliment their meal, not make the restaurant a profit.
Mike