With Mark's and Craig's recent threads on Penfold's Grange, I thought it would be interesting to Poll the forum on what would be the maximum price we would pay for the 2001 release of Grange. Since Penfold's state that the price is determined by market forces, what would the "Auswine Market" determine the price of the 2001 vintage to be worth?
All $ value's in the Poll question are Australian.
Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $200 per bottle as anything over this is too extravagant for this household ... even for special occasions! At the end of the day it all end's up in the toilet anyway!
A couple of stores over here are hoping to retail it for approx USD200 (they dont have a definite price from Southcorp yet), but with 05 Bordeaux en primeur coming up, as well as wines like 03 JL Chave Hermitage soon to be released, I think I'll pass.
And why would you when you can still occassionally get the '96 for around that price at auction.
1) You can not get the 1996 at auction for up to $200.
2) The 2002 might be in the same league as the 1996.
3) I value knowing where a wine has come from so I am happy to pay more NOT from auction. I have wasted too much money on expensive wines from auction. In fact, the more expensive the wine from auction, the more change it is faulty, in my experience.
And why would you when you can still occassionally get the '96 for around that price at auction.
1) You can not get the 1996 at auction for up to $200. 2) The 2002 might be in the same league as the 1996.
I was referring to: "I would pay up to $300 for the 2002." What is the expected cost for the '02? $500+?
Adair wrote:3) I value knowing where a wine has come from so I am happy to pay more NOT from auction. I have wasted too much money on expensive wines from auction. In fact, the more expensive the wine from auction, the more change it is faulty, in my experience.
Adair
Interesting thought. Why do you think there is greater chance of the wine being faulty at the higher expense?
Adair wrote: I value knowing where a wine has come from so I am happy to pay more NOT from auction. I have wasted too much money on expensive wines from auction. In fact, the more expensive the wine from auction, the more change it is faulty, in my experience.
Adair
Adair,
It is understandable how so many people can be put off buying at auction because of the uncertainty of how well a wine has been stored. Thats why I introduced provenance grading last year on each lot at auction. I will stand behind the provenance of certain lots, usually because I have personally inspected the storage location and sighted any paperwork to determine where the wine was purchased from and when. I beleive this gives bidders at my auctions alot more confidence rather than not knowing the history of the wine they are bidding on.
Cheers -Mark Wickman
WICKMAN'S FINE WINE AUCTIONS FREE membership, LOWEST auction commissions in Australia. Now accepting wine for our next auction. http://www.wickman.net.au
After reading the article last year by the Californian journalist who researched how much it would cost to make the most expensive wine he possibly could using the most expensive land, viticulture, grapes, winemaker, oak treatment, storage, marketing and packaging and came up with a figure if US$28 a bottle I'm afraid I have set my spending limit at about $50 - $60.
I've got a limited budget so if there are great wines that cost more than $60 I'm afraid I have just accepted the fact that I won't be drinking them.
If we ever have a recession and the bottom really falls out of the market and people no longer have the disposable income to be buying $100+ wines I'll remember all the companies and wineries that kept their prices real during the good times.
The increased RRP of Bin 389, 407, St Henri and Magill over the last 4-5 years are a clear case in point.
simm wrote:Interesting thought. Why do you think there is greater chance of the wine being faulty at the higher expense? Cheers, Simm
Conventional logic says that it should not, but my hip pocket says it does. Thinking about it, I think the reason is the fact that the most expensive bottles I have bought have had some age and the negative effects of cork are greater over time... and I tend to be the unlucky one. The cynic might suggest that expensive bottles provide the greatest profit so these attract the greatest unethical dealings.
I don't know but I have simply had enough of auctions, although I like what Mark is doing. Well done in trying to alleviate these issues. If I buy from Langtons again, which I hope to (65HRB), I will certainly be much more careful than I have in the past when I have simply accepted a "We know the seller. He has sold before and no one has negatively commented" only to open a faulty wine with no recourse. I am not even going to consider bidding with that sort of provenance check. I am happy that we now have a man of the people to speak with who understands wine at the place now.
simm wrote:Interesting thought. Why do you think there is greater chance of the wine being faulty at the higher expense? Cheers, Simm
Conventional logic says that it should not, but my hip pocket says it does. Thinking about it, I think the reason is the fact that the most expensive bottles I have bought have had some age and the negative effects of cork are greater over time... and I tend to be the unlucky one. The cynic might suggest that expensive bottles provide the greatest profit so these attract the greatest unethical dealings.
I don't know but I have simply had enough of auctions, although I like what Mark is doing. Well done in trying to alleviate these issues. If I buy from Langtons again, which I hope to (65HRB), I will certainly be much more careful than I have in the past when I have simply accepted a "We know the seller. He has sold before and no one has negatively commented" only to open a faulty wine with no recourse. I am not even going to consider bidding with that sort of provenance check. I am happy that we now have a man of the people to speak with who understands wine at the place now.
Adair
yes, it's true. The People's Wine Checker is definitely on the case. He barely pops up on the forums these days.
simm wrote:Interesting thought. Why do you think there is greater chance of the wine being faulty at the higher expense? Cheers, Simm
Conventional logic says that it should not, but my hip pocket says it does. Thinking about it, I think the reason is the fact that the most expensive bottles I have bought have had some age and the negative effects of cork are greater over time... and I tend to be the unlucky one. The cynic might suggest that expensive bottles provide the greatest profit so these attract the greatest unethical dealings.
I don't know but I have simply had enough of auctions, although I like what Mark is doing. Well done in trying to alleviate these issues. If I buy from Langtons again, which I hope to (65HRB), I will certainly be much more careful than I have in the past when I have simply accepted a "We know the seller. He has sold before and no one has negatively commented" only to open a faulty wine with no recourse. I am not even going to consider bidding with that sort of provenance check. I am happy that we now have a man of the people to speak with who understands wine at the place now.
Adair
I think it is also that often the most expensive "cult" wines are the ones that have been flipped to auction a hell of a lot of times - different cellars, different temperatures , poor and not so poor handling etc. Good examples are '82 bordeaux, great year grange etc.
Didn't even vote though do have one "icon" bottle of the 96. Would have voted the 1st option but don't fit the "never have" part and did also once buy an early 80s vintage to share with a mate before he left town.
These days with the SEA OF AUSTRALIAN RED WINE available there are just so many really good wines around $15-$50 why would I bother when going on 52 yo, to buy wines I may never drink?
The only wine I'm likely to spend around $100 on is Tahbilk 1860s Vines - the 95 was very nice at 9-10yo and as with Grange it's not released until 5 years after vintage.
No, I'll never buy Grange again unless it's price is realistic, like $150 max and probably not even then. Ditto Bin 707 that shouldn't be more than $80 in an increasingly competitive market.
It would be interesting to start another poll for income pa and then taking the average. Comparing this to the Grange poll would be interesting, as long as everyone was honest.
Grinners wrote:It would be interesting to start another poll for income pa and then taking the average. Comparing this to the Grange poll would be interesting, as long as everyone was honest.
Then you'd have to add in size of mortgage, number/age of kids, size of ego and a few other factors as well.
Cheers Brian Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
