Warning: Shiraz with Fish

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Mon May 02, 2005 8:44 pm

If you are likely to be offended by what a red bigot with a chilli addiction could do with some fillets of whiting, hit the Back button now!

With a lot of chillis still ripening on my 20+ chilli bushes I'm always looking for ways to use the produce. Today I decided to make this recipe, Hell Fire Sauce (Nam Prik Narok)

It turned out reasonably well, I used a bit more chilli than in the recipe, so I decided to use it as a sauce for some whiting fillets dredged in cornflour and shallow-fried in mustard oil, served with a green salad.

To accompany this we drank the reminder of a bottle of Yaldara Farms Shiraz 2002 left over from my Monday tasting group. This wine is approachable now, lots of sweet fruit, low oak and tannin, nicely balanced. It was very enjoyable with the fish and a fair amount of the Hell Fire Sauce.

I know this will only reinforce the opinion of some people as to my strange ways with wine and food, but it works for me and luckily also for my partner of 23 years, that's all that matters.

PS: We mostly eat grilled, slow baked or poached Atlantic salmon for our fish dishes, sometimes ocean trout, also deep-fried whole snapper, often teamed with a mature cabernet or shiraz.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Mon May 02, 2005 10:16 pm

Brian, what some Shiraz - Spicy food critiques fail to realize,
is what we call "spicy" is RED HOT spicy. It's not just sprinkled with chilli,
it's drills the hole in your mouth, growth hairs on the chest and is not recomended in the 3rd trimester of pregnancy

When you have those sunstances in your mouth, they require special measures of counter balance. Shiraz, vodka, LOTS of cold beer,
will do, while lighter drinks will just fail.

I wouldn't drink French wines with spicy food, they'll be just lost dealing with this kind of firepower.

When fish is soaked in Nam Prik Narok, fish is there in texture ONLY, as the taste of it is almost shut by spice.

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Tue May 03, 2005 1:11 am

Geez Brian.

Have you completely lost your marbles.

Shallow fried in mustard oil??? I ask you!!!!

What is wrong with deep fried? :lol:

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:38 am

Davo wrote:What is wrong with deep fried?

Didn't have enough mustard oil! :-(

Gavin Trott · Post by **Gavin Trott** » Tue May 03, 2005 9:32 am

Red Bigot wrote:If you are likely to be offended by what a red bigot with a chilli addiction could do with some fillets of whiting, hit the Back button now!

.

Hi Brian

For someone looking to increase their (ordinary) Thai food cooking skills, is there a book or books that would be good for me to use to begin improving this area of my knowledge.

Seeking reasonably authentic styles, but fairly simple to follow.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Popov · Post by **Popov** » Tue May 03, 2005 9:48 am

Actually Brian this is not so out there.
One of my favourite dishes is the chilli whiting that you normally have to ask for at the Tea House restaurants in Melbourne.

Cheers
Popov

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Tue May 03, 2005 9:55 am

Gavin,

It's useful to find a cooking class somewhere to learn the basic techniques and how to achieve the balance of Thai food. The better cookbooks do have details on technique etc as well.

Here are the books we use:

Classic Thai Cuisine by David Thompson (slim, dates from 93/95 may be out of print) ISBN 0 7318 0491 0

Thai Food by David Thompson (the Bible, but some of the recipes are a bit complex and use hard-to-find ingredients) ISBN 0 670 86761 6

Longrain Modern Thai food by Martin Boetz ISBN 1 74066 027 7

Also the Thai section in the big Charmaine Solomon Asian Cookbook is Ok.

I find quite a few of the Thai recipes on www.fooddownunder.com to be pretty authentic (I found the best Nam Prik Pow - Black Chilli Paste recipe there and the Nam Prik Narok above is from there and is not in the DT book) and often the ingredients are fairly easy to get, if a bit americanised. The Asian food shop at the Adelaide City markets has a good range of ingredients.

You also need a good wok and wok burner, or the new Kambrook electric woks now have sufficient heat capacity to be a good alternative, we use both, the wok burner is outside on the BBQ, the electric one is used inside in inclement weather.

Enjoy!

Gavin Trott · Post by **Gavin Trott** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:04 am

Red Bigot wrote:Gavin,

I find quite a few of the Thai recipes on www.fooddownunder.com to be pretty authentic (I found the best Nam Prik Pow - Black Chilli Paste recipe there and the Nam Prik Narok above is from there and is not in the DT book) and often the ingredients are fairly easy to get, if a bit americanised. The Asian food shop at the Adelaide City markets has a good range of ingredients.

You also need a good wok and wok burner, or the new Kambrook electric woks now have sufficient heat capacity to be a good alternative, we use both, the wok burner is outside on the BBQ, the electric one is used inside in inclement weather.

Enjoy!

Brian

Thanks.

Ingredients are not the problem, we shop every Saturday morning at the central market, have for years, love it!

Got a good wok etc.

Had a Kambrook electric Wok, got rid of it, too large, too space hungry (although it DID get hot enough it must be said), back to on stove wok for me!

I'll try to find one or more of those books and check the recipe site.

Eating at Ky Chow here in Adelaide regularly and being in Hong Kong last year we fell back in love with Chinese food. We are just getting our techniques better there and looking at improving out Thai foods also.

Great cuisines, very healthy eating with great and complex flavours!

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:12 am

Serge wrote:Brian, what some Shiraz - Spicy food critiques fail to realize,
is what we call "spicy" is RED HOT spicy. It's not just sprinkled with chilli,
it's drills the hole in your mouth, growth hairs on the chest and is not recomended in the 3rd trimester of pregnancy

When you have those sunstances in your mouth, they require special measures of counter balance. Shiraz, vodka, LOTS of cold beer,
will do, while lighter drinks will just fail.

I wouldn't drink French wines with spicy food, they'll be just lost dealing with this kind of firepower.

When fish is soaked in Nam Prik Narok, fish is there in texture ONLY, as the taste of it is almost shut by spice.

Serge, I agree with most of what you say, I haven't tried many french wines with spicy food, bordeaux is mostly a dud, maybe some rhones would work, or some AOC reds from southern france.

Re chilli overpowering other flavours, maybe I'm different, but I find chilli a very "clear" heat, I can still get other flavours, even in a fish dish. Way back in the early 70's at an Indian restaurant with a group of 6-7 friends we ordered the chilli crab entree, it came with a "very hot" warning. I got to eat about 7/8ths of it, slowly, but couldn't stop as I was continually amazed at how those superb, delicate crab flavours could continue to shine through the searing heat. I think that was the start of my chilli addiction, I'm now at the stage where I can enjoy (not just tolerate) higher amounts of chilli than my Thai friends, and some of their friends we've dined with in Thailand.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:04 am

Gavin, et al,

One tip for Thai cooking: Quite a few recipes start with frying off thick coconut milk until the oil separates and then frying the paste etc. This doesn't work with canned coconut milks, they are homogenised, so don't keep frying the cream waiting for the oil to separate.

When you get really serious, ask me where to get the coconut scraper that makes it easier to shred the coconut meat and make your own thick/thin coconut milks, it really makes a big difference.

Has anyone seen in Australia the big wooden mortar and pestle used to make Som Tam (green papaya salad)? They are pretty cheap in Thailand, we got ours on Koh Samui, haven't seen them in any Oz Asian shops though.

AndrewS · Post by **AndrewS** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:44 am

Hi Gavin,

Charmaine Solomon also did a Thai only book. I found this a good place to start, but possibly not quite genuine.

I also have DT's Thai food (bible) which is great, but it's hardcore.

One thing I found was that some supermarket fish sauce is horrible. I use "Squid" brand (because it seemed popular in Thailand). Brian may be able to recommend others.

Brian - I got the mortar and pestle from a trash/treasure market a few years ago. They had a few of them. I have never seen one in a shop.

Cheers,
Andrew.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Tue May 03, 2005 12:21 pm

AndrewS wrote:One thing I found was that some supermarket fish sauce is horrible. I use "Squid" brand (because it seemed popular in Thailand). Brian may be able to recommend others.

Brian - I got the mortar and pestle from a trash/treasure market a few years ago. They had a few of them. I have never seen one in a shop.

Cheers,
Andrew.

Hi Andrew, "Squid" brand is what we use too, it's quite cheap and a very good one. I think DT used that when we went to his cooking class at the Sydney Fish markets. I've tried a couple of other more expensive ones, but always go back to Squid.

Re wooden mortar & pestle, lucky you, they are pretty bulky to carry on the plane otherwise I'd bring a few back too.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:03 pm

Red Bigot wrote:
Serge, I agree with most of what you say, I haven't tried many french wines with spicy food, bordeaux is mostly a dud, maybe some rhones would work, or some AOC reds from southern france.

Re chilli overpowering other flavours, maybe I'm different, but I find chilli a very "clear" heat, I can still get other flavours, even in a fish dish. Way back in the early 70's at an Indian restaurant with a group of 6-7 friends we ordered the chilli crab entree, it came with a "very hot" warning. I got to eat about 7/8ths of it, slowly, but couldn't stop as I was continually amazed at how those superb, delicate crab flavours could continue to shine through the searing heat. I think that was the start of my chilli addiction, I'm now at the stage where I can enjoy (not just tolerate) higher amounts of chilli than my Thai friends, and some of their friends we've dined with in Thailand.

Brian, when I make it to the land of OZ one day, I'll look you up for dinner. You are my kind of eater and I have a feeling, with more sensetive palate than mine.

Mark L · Post by **Mark L** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:23 pm

All I can say is "too much chilli is never enough" - but for food requirements such as this I still always follow the breakout trend to try a bright young rich fruit Shiraz. Goes against all common thinking but damn it works, if you have the right wine with enough fruit, not too much tannin etc... it really works atreat.

Just my $0.02 worth but I also reserve white wine occasions for when I think it is the ONLY option.

Cheers
Mark (Red wine Bigot Apprentice)

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:14 am

Try "Thai Cooking Class" by Somi Anuntra Miller & Patricia Lake, published by Bay Books.

Excellent for both beginners as well as goers as it teaches basic skills as well as having plenty of great recipes, including my favourite hangover cure/cure all, Khao Tom Gai, ie Rice Soup with Chicken. Tons of fish sauce, garlic, coriander, ginger, and of course chilli.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Wed May 04, 2005 8:07 am

Mark L wrote:All I can say is "too much chilli is never enough" - but for food requirements such as this I still always follow the breakout trend to try a bright young rich fruit Shiraz. Goes against all common thinking but damn it works, if you have the right wine with enough fruit, not too much tannin etc... it really works atreat.

Just my $0.02 worth but I also reserve white wine occasions for when I think it is the ONLY option.

Cheers
Mark (Red wine Bigot Apprentice)

Mark, for our next trip to Thailand I'm thinking of getting some T-shirts screen-printed in English and Thai with "More Chilli Please" for those occasions when the locals try to tone down the food for us "farangs".

Re white wine, I have .05% of my cellar allocated to whites, some recipes demand a splash of white wine (the leftovers make nice white wine vinegar eventually after languishing in the refrigerator for long enough) and our White Bigot friends sometimes run out when the visit for dinner.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Wed May 04, 2005 8:13 am

Davo wrote:...my favourite hangover cure/cure all, Khao Tom Gai, ie Rice Soup with Chicken. Tons of fish sauce, garlic, coriander, ginger, and of course chilli.

It's a brilliant way to start the day! Try this and you'll never eat common porridge ever again. At a pinch chinese-style (pork, chicken or fish) congee will do too, especially if you have some extra spicy bits and pieces to add.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:15 am

Red Bigot wrote:[quote="DavoAt a pinch chinese-style (pork, chicken or fish) congee will do too, especially if you have some extra spicy bits and pieces to add.

..to make congee the best,
the table spoon of hot Chinese roasted peppers oil is what the doctor ordered. MY wife does the best congee between Singapore and Manhattan China town,
waitressing in the Chinese restaurant did her cooking good.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:40 am

Serge wrote:
Red Bigot wrote:[quote="DavoAt a pinch chinese-style (pork, chicken or fish) congee will do too, especially if you have some extra spicy bits and pieces to add.

..to make congee the best,
the table spoon of hot Chinese roasted peppers oil is what the doctor ordered. MY wife does the best congee between Singapore and Manhattan China town,
waitressing in the Chinese restaurant did her cooking good.

Serge, c'mon. post her recipe in the food/wine section.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:38 am

Red Bigot wrote:
Serge, c'mon. post her recipe in the food/wine section.

I don't think she ever posted it....but I'll ask her nicely.

Serge Birbrair · Post by **Serge Birbrair** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:55 am

done!

Good wife who cooks, posts and drinks wine is heard to find

scottv · Post by **scottv** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:43 am

Saw an episode of Frasier on the plane the other day. Niles, under the misapprehension that he was stoned, said that he was so "ripped" he was contemplating some outrageous food and wine combinations.

He was thinking of matching a delicate Chilean bass with an agressive zinfandel.

Nothing wrong with that in my book. :wink:

Cheers

Scott

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Warning: Shiraz with Fish

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