POLL: Would you pay $1,000 for the 2021 Hill of Grace?

[Sean]

The Henschke 2021 icon reds will be released on 7 May.

Including the 2021 Hill of Grace, which will retail for $1,000.

They are releasing it a year early. Apparently there is stuff all of the 2020 vintage and it will be a museum release down the track.

You can watch a video of Huon Hooke talking to Stephen & Prue Henschke about the new release reds here if you are interested -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONtxfEnzbcI

(The link will work if you copy and paste all of it to your browser bar.)

Anyway thinking most of you will probably call it ridiculous paying $1,000 for a new Grange or $850 for a Torbreck Laird.

How about $1,000 for Hill of Grace?

And if yes, why?

[Andrew Jordan]

Quoting Darryl Kerrigan ... "tell him he's dreaming".

[phillisc]

$27 for the 1990 HOG
$12 for the 1990 Mt Ed.

That's where we'll leave it
Cheers Craig

[Ian S]

For me, yes I suspect it's utterly ridiculous, but I've not tasted it, so although every indicator points to it being ridiculous, who knows...

In 1990 I tasted Penfolds Grange. It cost £25 a bottle at the time and I was shocked that I felt the price justifiable, and if I would have had storage options at the tine, may have bought a bottle or two.

Factoring inflation in, the current price would be £60.70

HoG has mirrored Grange in pricing over the years, neither being prepared to cede their aspiration to be Australia's most prestigious wine.

My view of 'value' will have changed over the years, partly through general wine price super-inflation for 'prestigious' wines, but also a better understanding of my own palate (I see less value / interest in South Australian Shiraz beloved by Aussie wine critics). Overall I'd say if I ignored the arbitrage potential, Grange at £60.70 would probably still hold a similar 'value' to me. Nice to have 3-4 bottles in the cellar, but no more than that.

Against this thinking, it's hard to imagine £500 for HoG to hold any value for me.

[SipAndANibble]

Far too much especially at my stage in my wine journey. I’d be inquisitive to try a glass of it but couldn’t bring myself to pay that much for a bottle !

[Waiters Friend]

Grange and HoG around $1K - far more interesting wines from Europe to spend my $$ on.

[felixp21]

shared in a bottle of the 2017 Grange the other night, a birthday wine. (yes, too young, but whatever)
also had, side-by-side, a glass of the 2018 Ogier La Rosine syrah.
All four of us preferred the latter, and you can buy about 20 bottles of it for a single bottle of Grange.

It's no different to many many wines around the globe, good luck to them as they can sell it every year.
Harlan, Screaming Eagle, Arnoux-Lachaux, Raveneau, etc etc ....... ridiculous, but people still buy them.
then you have Liber Pater, incredibly, people even buy that.

IMO if Grange was priced at $2000 a bottle, it would still sell every year, despite the waning Chinese market. So, by my logic, $1000 is a bargain.
I also reckon Penfolds know that.
I guarantee you if Screagle was ten times the current release price, it would sell out every year. DRC RC has no problem, and I mean no problem, selling at $30k a bottle.

I purchased a case of 1978 Grange in-store, not auction, in 1986 for $16 a bottle. In a pub in Echuca, a real bargain. With inflation, that is now the equivalent princely sum of $46 a bottle. Ahhh, the good old days.

PS of course, I'd never even contemplate buying either at $1000 a bottle, way too many far better wines out there at a third the price.

[JamieAdelaide]

Conventional inflation is not a fair measure for the appreciation of luxury items. It’s as simple as that!

We can all find better wines as wine lovers and often tell a great story to go with them. In the case of Grange and Hill of Grace, arguably the greatest wine of Italy, which until the 2004 vintage, I could buy 3 bottles of per the Aussie icon bottle price.

In Australia too, we also have parochial devotees eg: the birthday Grange for the kids which despite the $1000 price tag, isn’t out of reach for many for such an occasion.

[Wine2day]

No.....

[Matt@5453]

Conventional inflation is not a fair measure for the appreciation of luxury items. It’s as simple as that!

We can all find better wines as wine lovers and often tell a great story to go with them. In the case of Grange and Hill of Grace, arguably the greatest wine of Italy, which until the 2004 vintage, I could buy 3 bottles of per the Aussie icon bottle price.

In Australia too, we also have parochial devotees eg: the birthday Grange for the kids which despite the $1000 price tag, isn’t out of reach for many for such an occasion.

I agree with Jamie. It isn't out of reach. Plenty of people will buy it for different reasons.

The 2021 vintage would be an investment in quality and quality drinking in the future, probably not as a financial investment given the secondary market pricing.

If any one has not seen it yet, Barossa Australia have their own classification system: "Barossa Super 100 Classification, shining a global spotlight on the region’s finest ultra-premium wines"

The top tier is listed here for interest:

$800+
Chris Ringland Dry Grown Barossa Ranges Shiraz
Henschke Hill of Grace Shiraz
Hentley Farm Cotes De Hentley Shiraz
Penfolds Block 42 Kalimna Cabernet Sauvignon
Peter Lehmann Wines Masterson Shiraz
Seppeltsfield 100 Year Old Para Vintage Tawny
Torbreck The Forebear Shiraz
Torbreck The Laird Shiraz

[phillisc]

Had a look at that yesterday Matt...absolutely laughable list.
Should be renamed fools and their money list.
Is there anything that is any good under $125!!

cheers Craig

[JamieAdelaide]

Whether you like it or not, $1000 isn’t a lot of money for people. I’ve been watching this for years with my well to do, Burgundy loving friends.

Why discourage this? The ATO gets $400 a bottle. Then gives it to the government to subsidise our energy bills- even though we the most energy rich country the planet.

Drink more Grange for Albo!

[mjs]

The top tier is listed here for interest:

$800+
Chris Ringland Dry Grown Barossa Ranges Shiraz
Henschke Hill of Grace Shiraz
Hentley Farm Cotes De Hentley Shiraz
Penfolds Block 42 Kalimna Cabernet Sauvignon
Peter Lehmann Wines Masterson Shiraz
Seppeltsfield 100 Year Old Para Vintage Tawny
Torbreck The Forebear Shiraz
Torbreck The Laird Shiraz

The Block42 is the only one I (have and) would buy. Superb cabernet, none of that Shiraz muck

[mind you, I've never paid anything like $800/b for maybe 6-8 bottles from 1996 and 2004, ok there was a magnum of '96 for my 60th that was $800 ]

[mjs]

It's not Grange or HoG, but I did pick up a bottle of 2021 Penfolds Bin180 for a fair bit of coin at a tasting of this and a couple of other Penfolds special wines at Magill Estate today

[Chuck]

Whilst it's hard to swallow $1,000 the 21 vintage would be the one to get if you are a collector. 21 was an astonishingly great vintage in the Barossa/Eden. I've been loading up on them for a while now albeit at a fraction of the HOG pricing. Fruit quality has been stunning. Hard to see any wine maker stuffing this fruit up but I have seen a few who pushed the envelope of ripeness too far resulting in unbalanced fruit bombs. 22 shaping up as pretty good too; more elegant in style.

[JamieAdelaide]

Stopped counting at eighty, $1000 AUD bottles of wines, in a Hong King wine shop. Including HofG and Grange! As common as muck these days.

Lucky I know my wines and spent $35 AUD on a Nebbiolo of Barbaresco quality, to watch the footy with in my hotel room!

[platinum]

Conventional inflation is not a fair measure for the appreciation of luxury items. It’s as simple as that!

We can all find better wines as wine lovers and often tell a great story to go with them. In the case of Grange and Hill of Grace, arguably the greatest wine of Italy, which until the 2004 vintage, I could buy 3 bottles of per the Aussie icon bottle price.

In Australia too, we also have parochial devotees eg: the birthday Grange for the kids which despite the $1000 price tag, isn’t out of reach for many for such an occasion.

Spot on with all points

I was going to say the same thing. So many factors to take in other than basic inflation. Median House prices were circa 80 grand 1990 now a million .

Population a factor. 17 million Australia in 1990 another 10 million more today. Can’t increase output of hog other than vintage variations from 1990 till now. Heck it’s a world famous wine 5 billion in 1990 8.3 billion now. Once again can’t just up production

I remember how many on this forum and winestar , etc back saying how 450-550 was an absolute rip off for hog and grange 2002 and 2004 etc


It wiil be worth a lot more than a grand in 15 years if investment is ones thing or as you mentioned still not out of reach for many for super special occasions

[phillisc]

Second hand market for HoG is dead, most wines in the last 20 years and $5-700. Of course if you purchased The 1990 like I did for $27, then there was money to be made. I reckon in 2045-50 current HoG vintages might fetch 2 grand. Money in super or shares much better options. Reinforces the fact for the HoG buyers, and it seems that there are plenty of you out there...is, drink them!!! Waiting for the glory of a few dollars on a wine that is held in such high regard seems very counter intuitive for people who really like wine.
Cheers Craig

[JamieAdelaide]

Last vintage of HofG I bought was 2002. It’s 3 x that at auction now? How’s that a dead market? List other Aussie wines that appreciate in that manner? Not that it matters.

If the Henschke’s sold Hill of Grace for $100 below market there would be thousands of miserable flippers hounding the winery annually! I read recently Pru visited Antarctica and marvelled at the geography. That’s an expensive holiday and I hope they did it first class and included the helicopter tours. They deserve their wealth. A flipper doesn’t!

[Ian S]

None of us can predict where the wines will be in another 10 years, and as the guidance goes: past performance is not a guide to future investment returns.

If people want to 'invest' in wines then so be it, but my hobby is focused on buying/drinking the wines. I never intend to sell a single bottle. I doubt there's more than a handful of bottles in my cellar that would count as 'investment grade' wines.

[JamieAdelaide]

If people want to 'invest' in wines then so be it, but my hobby is focused on buying/drinking the wines. I never intend to sell a single bottle. I doubt there's more than a handful of bottles in my cellar that would count as 'investment grade' wines.

I’ve no doubt many wine lovers share your sentiments myself included. What has happened however, is many great wines from around the world have hit this $1000 AUD mantle. If you enjoyed these great wines from around the world and were a collector, you now sit on a cellar full of ridiculously priced wine.

It’s a curse I haven’t a name for yet. You loved these wines, you know them well and enjoy their development, yet they are now $1000 + a bottle. Should this detract from the pleasure you get drinking them? Probably not but it does me in an odd way. It’s surreal drinking mid week in front on Netflix, a Burgundy once cheaper than Leeuwin AS now beyond $2000.

I’ve seen many collectors at the extreme end, not be able to deal with their cellars and find pleasure drinking their wine that has appreciated significantly. These were passionate people -wine lovers. Comically cursed and committing their treasures for auction or brokered sale.

Grange and Hill of Grace at today’s prices won’t see the above dilemma for collectors. They gently appreciate most vintages, taking a few years to appreciate on the secondary market to their retail release price. By the time the kids are 21 they’ll look great value versus current release.

[mphatic]

Last vintage of HofG I bought was 2002. It’s 3 x that at auction now? How’s that a dead market? List other Aussie wines that appreciate in that manner? Not that it matters.

If the Henschke’s sold Hill of Grace for $100 below market there would be thousands of miserable flippers hounding the winery annually! I read recently Pru visited Antarctica and marvelled at the geography. That’s an expensive holiday and I hope they did it first class and included the helicopter tours. They deserve their wealth. A flipper doesn’t!

A few bottles of 02 HoG sold at Langtons last year for $553+18%BP=$653.
Wasn’t this around $400 on release?

[JamieAdelaide]

I recall $210. I was a cashed up expat and I recall my reluctance as many of the great wines of the world not much more expensive. The individual coffins sold me. I figured it was a luxury item and prices going north. I’ll drink them with my daughter soon. Her generation can’t afford a house let alone HofG.

Just checked yep RRP in excess of $400. I picked them up in country Vic for a good price but probably not $210. Really odd. Wouldn’t have thought I’d pay that!

[Ian S]

Hi Jamie
Agreed on the mental hurdle of drinking and enjoying a wine that has gone from affordable to unaffordable. It ought to be a blessing, but there is indeed something in the mind that niggles with us, about drinking such a (now) overly expensive wine. The obvious solution is to sell it, but having never set out to do so, I find that a mental challenge as well. Ideally we just focus on the purchase price (if at all), not the current market price, but that's harder to do than it sounds. Intentional ignorance of market pricing also something of an option. Perhaps the easiest solution is via offlines. In sharing it with others, the madness of current pricing feels less impactful, and we can take pleasure in others getting a taste of something now unaffordable.

[mjs]

The funny thing I find in all of this discussion about premium wine and high costs, particularly Penfolds in my case, how come St H is still relatively cheap? To me it's by far the best value Penfolds wine on offer. I bought some at Magill Estate a week or so ago for $100/b. That is such good value compared to other Pennies labels. Can't understand how they haven't jacked up the price of St H!

[Waiters Friend]

The funny thing I find in all of this discussion about premium wine and high costs, particularly Penfolds in my case, how come St H is still relatively cheap? To me it's by far the best value Penfolds wine on offer. I bought some at Magill Estate a week or so ago for $100/b. That is such good value compared to other Pennies labels. Can't understand how they haven't jacked up the price of St H!

Don't speak so loudly. They might hear you. I agree with you rthat it is the best value in the red wine portfolio.

[Alan Foo]

The funny thing I find in all of this discussion about premium wine and high costs, particularly Penfolds in my case, how come St H is still relatively cheap? To me it's by far the best value Penfolds wine on offer. I bought some at Magill Estate a week or so ago for $100/b. That is such good value compared to other Pennies labels. Can't understand how they haven't jacked up the price of St H!

shshshshsh................ Now the whole of Australia knows about this wine. Yes, I have been drinking and buying St H for the past years from auction. I am lucky to get them at $60+ to $80+ Very enjoyable and of good value.

Alan