...risks associated with a cool room without temp/humidity moderation

[kryst1]

Hi ya'll

Looking for some storage advice.

Have about 200 bottles sitting in an offsite cellar (nothing incredibly expensive, probably median price point is ~A$35), with perfect temperature/humidity control. My good friend has a new house and it has a wine cellar room. It is on the bottom level, and has heaps of space, but no humidity or temperature control/air conditioning. I was thinking about moving my wines there, and using the saved money ($450 per six months) to buy extra wine.

I bought a temp/humidity data logger, a Elitech RC-51H PDF USB Temperature and Humidity Data Logger, to test how this would fare over the Brisbane summer. The output is the attached image, which is over the Brisbane summer.

Looks like temperature variability is 5 degrees over any 24 hour period, and had a maximum temperature of 27.9C. Keep in mind that would've been Brisbane's hottest day (40+C).

A few queries if someone knows:

Do you think I could reasonably store my wine here, without experiencing too much accelerated deterioration in wine quality?

Has anyone used mobile temperature moderation equipment or some other way to improve cellar conditions without spending a fortune?

[Alex F]

That high maximum is probably not the best for whites and delicate reds. Humidity is not a worry for screwcaps, unless you like drinking labels. I wouldn't store corked wines with that variability.

Actually, thinking about it i wouldn't cellar wines here as the temp is over 25 deg for a month.

[Lincoln]

Do you think I could reasonably store my wine here, without experiencing too much accelerated deterioration in wine quality?

Has anyone used mobile temperature moderation equipment or some other way to improve cellar conditions without spending a fortune?

I'm in Brisbane too, and have seen first-hand the cellaring of wines in a "cool part" of a house, and it didn't work as far as I'm concerned. They lose all the fruit and delicate wines like Pinot will degrade quickly.

[Wizz]

Do you think I could reasonably store my wine here, without experiencing too much accelerated deterioration in wine quality?

To put it plainly - no.

Has anyone used mobile temperature moderation equipment or some other way to improve cellar conditions without spending a fortune?

I'm also in Brisbane. I have a standard split system aircon in a well insulated room (which is partially underground) and it maintains between 16 and 17 degrees all year round. I'm happy with the results.

[brodie]

Way too hot for me. I would be very uncomfortable with these temps. Personally I believe that passive cellars should not exceed ~20deg C in summer

[A_Steady]

Was your temperature sensor in a wine bottle of water? While the maximum is high, I’m curious about the daily variable of 5 deg C

[kryst1]

Was your temperature sensor in a wine bottle of water? While the maximum is high, I’m curious about the daily variable of 5 deg C

Good point - no it wasn't in a bottle of wine/water... ambient

[Polymer]

Too warm. Below 20 would be better...or at least most of the time under 22/23 might be ok...

But it looks like no matter what you're looking at 24-26 for most of the summer and that just seems too much.

To be honest, if you're only planning to keep the wines for a short period of time and most are $35, it probably doesn't matter that much. But if you're planning to store any given bottle for years...I'd be worried about that.

[Mahmoud Ali]

The summer temperature is a worry and also alarming is the daily fluctuation. Wreaks havoc on wines of all kind.

[kryst1]

Thank you all for the considered responses, will look into some air conditioning, might be worth a little investment to get this right instead of rolling the dice on the vino.

[Polymer]

Thank you all for the considered responses, will look into some air conditioning, might be worth a little investment to get this right instead of rolling the dice on the vino.

A number of people here have done some of that work themselves so you might want to get some advice on the cooling, insulation as well as some sort of vapor barrier depending on how it is situated...I think a few people on here have made some pretty cool DIY cellars...

There might be less fancy ways to do it that don't take as much effort and get you most of the way there but not quite...Eg. Not as cool, not as humid, more to run but gets you most of what you want...

[Luke W]

If you pack your wine in broccoli boxes or some other foam insulation you'll find that it won't vary as much. You will have less of an issue with screw caps, wine won't go off unless the liquid inside the bottle goes well over 40 degrees for half an hour or so (at least according to a Colombo episode I once watched)! However it ages at a quicker rate, some say an extra year for each degree over 20 degrees. Not a problem if ur wine needs 20 years to develop and u want to drink it soon. Others say that higher temps will tend to broaden the wine and flatten the palate. Not sure if any of this will be true for you - in my experience in CQ you can usually get away with much more than you think eg, a mate left a 6 pack of premium wines in his room on top of a cupboard for 3 years in a room that often experienced >35 degrees without any ill effects at all, - which pissed me of no end as I'd spent zonks on an expensive cellar....

[asajoseph]

Thank you all for the considered responses, will look into some air conditioning, might be worth a little investment to get this right instead of rolling the dice on the vino.

A few thoughts, before you spend your money on that...

No point air conditioning, unless you're also insulating. Is the room in question above or (partially) below ground? If it's above ground, even with insulation, AC running costs can end up being quite high, so make sure you factor that against the saved storage costs. Also think about what happens if your AC unit breaks down? Temperatures & fluctuations that high are enough to spoil a good quality, older wine pretty quickly - at least at your temp controlled storage site you'll have some form of insurance. Do you really want to hold your friend responsible if his cellar cooling breaks down for a few weeks and your 1945 Romanee Conti cooks?

Below ground is always cooler, but I'd still play it safe with the AC & insulation - most studies I've seen into this are based on either European or North American locations. Climate & Geology are both very different here, so I've no idea how feasible the underground passive cellar really is in Australia. Others will have experience.

I'm also not 100% convinced that storage needs to be quite as cool as some suggest (usually those selling air conditioners or cellar solutions!). James Halliday (for example) I know stores his wine well, well above what most of us would consider ideal. Then again, I'm not prepared to test this theory out on my own cellar.

For reference, I live in Sydney, and have an above-ground, away from direct sunlight, self-insulated cellar. I run a portable AC unit in there, and achieve around 15-17 degrees constantly year-round, with little diurnal variation. So it is very achievable.

[bdellabosca]

Based on the number of bottles you are looking to store / your external storage costs, I think you will find something like the Liebherr 312 Bottle Cabinet (WKT6451) to be your best solution.

Should cost under $3k to buy (I think I got mine for below $2.5k each including delivery / set up but it was a long time ago) and running costs are minimal. I find they store around 280 bottles (despite the 312 statistic). I have two of these. One I bought 10 years and the second 5 years ago (both still going strong next to each other in my garage with around 600 bottles stored). Never had any running issues / they have a key lock / very good temperature stability / well insulated so power outages didn't move the temperate dial - just had to deal with a little high humidity occasionally but that's easy. These are not flashy wine fridges (they look industrial) and bottles can be a little hard to access, but you get used to it / organise based on themes (i.e. drink sooner on the top shelfs, different varietals in the middle shelves and very long term cellaring at the bottom, etc...). Even better I've moved houses twice since I bought the first one and they were easy to move, which I think is a huge advantage over a built in cellar...

[Polymer]

Based on the number of bottles you are looking to store / your external storage costs, I think you will find something like the Liebherr 312 Bottle Cabinet (WKT6451) to be your best solution.

This is really popular in Europe as well...I wish it was available in the US. Big capacity, no frills. It is perfect IMO.
Unfortunately, in the US, the wine fridges tend to be designed around being showy rather than purely functional. The no frills approach where you can't show off your wine probably doesn't sell well to the general public.

[Scotty vino]

IN answer to the first question in the OP.
"Do you think I could reasonably store my wine here, without experiencing too much accelerated deterioration in wine quality?"

My answer would be no.
In my research and experience that's too much variation. Whenever I question winemakers or anybody who i consider to be well versed on the subject of wine storage temp variation is the number 1 priority. That followed by a low temp range (13-16 being the holy grail window). Also darker the better and if you are storing a lot of cork sealed bottles than humidity becomes a requirement.

I've had a passive cellar for about 6 years now so I'm starting to see some of the results from that.
So far I'm pretty happy with he way it performs. I do have some bottles of the same vintage and maker stored in both my wine fridge and passive cellar and I guess I won't really have any solid data until i open them together in say 10-15 years. Far from being scientific but i think it'll be enough of a backyard comparison to give me the indicators I'm looking for. For me the passive cellar ticks the main box of temp variation. Mine will be lucky to change 0.3-0.5 a degree in one day. A point 0.5 change only really occurs when i leave the top open for an extended period. Over a year still sitting in the 15-20 degree temp range and humidity around the 65-75% mark.

20 degrees is the limit for mine. I think any higher than that you'll start to see accelerated ageing which will ultimately compromise the result of most wines in a 8-10 year period ageing period. I think some varietals can handle the rough stuff than others. Say pinot V shiraz.

End of the day if you're planning on holding and cellaring decent vino for long periods don't bother unless your conditions are ideal. You're more or less wasting your time. There is an element of chance and luck involved but again, why gamble with your hard earned?