Best NZ/AUS Chardonnay & Pinot Noir Offline - Fri 13 Oct

[VINH NGUYEN]

For information purposes only, there is an in-store tasting of the Bass Phillip wines this Tuesday at Five Ways in Sydney. (Gavin I trust you don't mind me sharing this info in the context of the discussion above).

I see the Reserve is now going for $750 per bottle whilst the Premium is $250 per bottle.

It is also interesting to see Five Ways rates the top three Pinots in the country as Bass Phillips, By Farr and Bindi.

Ild agree with that, theyld be my top 3 pinot producers in aust.

[TiggerK]

Hey all, just a bump for those still to advise me of their wines. Please do so by Tuesday if possible as I need to finalize the wines I'm putting in and it involves a midweek trip to the offsite storage.

Mark, can you check what Jim has I mind and PM me yours and his ???

My +1 can't make it, so nineredpens, you're in.

Off to PinotPalooza in Sydney today for some pre-event research, anyone else going?

Cheers, Tim

[VINH NGUYEN]

Hey Tim, works crazy atm, i dont think ill be able to make it on Friday so im giving up my spot, hopefully make it to one in the not too distant future

[TiggerK]

OK no prob Vinh, see you next time!

pc79, if you can make it, you're in!

Rooman and Jim & bobthebuilder, please let me know ASAP what you're bringing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bobthebuilder]

Text message coming!

[odyssey]

Hey Tim, please bench me in case of further withdrawals.

[TiggerK]

Paul is very unlikely odyssey, so you're in. Straight off the bench, and into the thick of it! Let me know sometime tomorrow?

Hmm, where is rooman and Jim? C'mon guys!

[rooman]

Paul is very unlikely odyssey, so you're in. Straight off the bench, and into the thick of it! Let me know sometime tomorrow?

Hmm, where is rooman and Jim? C'mon guys!

We are here. No change. Relax. Though I’d better tell Lisette it’s this Friday.

[TiggerK]

No change from what mark? How about you tell me what wines you and Jim are bringing so I CAN relax? I've asked a few times and I did say to let me know by Tuesday as per above. Thanks in advance, I just want to get the lineup balanced as much as possible. (And just checking that you know Lisette isn't on the list as your 'better tell her it's this friday' comment was a little unclear)

[rooman]

No change from what mark? How about you tell me what wines you and Jim are bringing so I CAN relax? I've asked a few times and I did say to let me know by Tuesday as per above. Thanks in advance, I just want to get the lineup balanced as much as possible. (And just checking that you know Lisette isn't on the list as your 'better tell her it's this friday' comment was a little unclear)

Tell Lisette I am not home this Friday.

[Bobthebuilder]

Mark, the wines son, just tell him the wines son!

[odyssey]

After a late scratching for pc79, odyssey's late entries quickly followed bobthebuilder's and are already in the barriers, blinkers on.

Rooman's got one in the gate and JimL's are looking fractious. The race starter's getting titchy and the chief official looks unimpressed...

[catchnrelease]

What's the glassware situation like at the restaurant? I doubt I'll be able to bring my own.

[rooman]

After a late scratching for pc79, odyssey's late entries quickly followed bobthebuilder's and are already in the barriers, blinkers on.

Rooman's got one in the gate and JimL's are looking fractious. The race starter's getting titchy and the chief official looks unimpressed...

Another relaxed evening out with a few mates.

[odyssey]

Tim has stated he will be relaxed once he knows all the wines.

[TiggerK]

OK everyone, see you all tonight, don't forget ........

3 Glasses!! (not sure on their glassware Alex, fingers crossed), Cash, Wines (Masked where poss please).

Cheers
Tim

[Bobthebuilder]

Glasses are no good, I will bring for you Alex.

[catchnrelease]

Glasses are no good, I will bring for you Alex.

Awesome!!! Thank you!

[catchnrelease]

Just got in an Uber, may be a bit late (coming from Ashfield), sorry guys!

[TiggerK]

Hey all, the results are in. Will make some extra comments later on. Hoping someone can put up some bottle shots and/or a full lineup pic?

All wines briefly decanted (as time allowed - 15 to 30 mins) then served double blind. I tried to get the serving temp right, a couple of Chard's were a bit too cold, but it was nice to have the Pinots around 16C or thereabouts. Serving order was completely randomised except for the 2005 White Burg which was assigned No.12 and one Pinot swap to avoid having three NZ wines in the same flight. The * denotes the winner of each flight.

We started with a lovely 2008 Champagne from Cam which I think was 100% Pinot Meunier, but sorry I didn't get the name as was busy setting up.

Chardonnay -

2011 Dry River Chardonnay 0 x 1st 1 x 2nd
* 2014 Oakridge 864 Funder & Diamond Block Chardonnay 7 x 1st 5 x 2nd
2013 Mcwilliams 842 Chardonnay 5 x 1st 6 x 2nd

2012 By Farr Chardonnay 3x 1st 5 x 2nd
* 2013 Kumeu River Hunting Hill Chardonnay 9 x 1st 2 x 2nd
2016 Pooley Cooinda Chardonnay 0 x 1st 5 x 2nd

2012 Mount Mary Chardonnay 1 x 1st 3 x 2nd
* 2016 Lethbridge Chardonnay 7 x 1st 4 x 2nd
2010 Grosset Picadilly Chardonnay 4 x 1st 5 x 2nd

2015 Eileen Hardy Chardonnay 5 x 1st 7 x 2nd
* 2015 Serrat Chardonnay 7 x 1st 5 x 2nd
2005 Mischief & Mayhem Puligny Montrachet 1er Les Caillerets 0/0 (prem-ox'ed)


Kumeu River Hunting Hill 2013 was voted Best Chardonnay overall with 8 votes, the Grosset & By Farr also getting a vote or two each.

Second favourite overall votes were split between the Lethbridge and the Grosset at 3 votes each, then Mt Mary with two votes.


Pinot Noir


* 2013 Picardy Pinot Noir 10 x 1st 1 x 2nd
2013 Mayer Pinot Noir 2 x 1st 10 x 2nd
2010 Wooing Tree Pinot Noir 0 x 1st 1 x 2nd

2011 Escarpment Pahi Pinot Noir 1 x 1st 5 x 2nd
* 2012 De Bortoli Riorret Abbey Pinot Noir 10 x 1st 3 x 2nd
2010 Craggy Range Calvert Pinot Noir 1 x 1st 4 x 2nd

2014 Mt Difficulty Pinot Noir 3 x 1st 6 x 2nd
* 2008 Ten Minutes By Tractor Pinot Noir 9 x 1st 3 x 2nd
2008 Bouchard Corton Le Corton Grand Cru Burgundy 0x 1st 3 x 2nd

2013 By Farr Tout Pres Pinot Noir 4 x 1st 5 x 2nd
2014 Tarrawarra Reserve Pinot Noir 4 x 1st 1 x 2nd
2015 Schubert Marion’s Vineyard Pinot Noir 4 x 1st 6 x 2nd


Ten Minutes By Tractor 2008 was voted Best Pinot Noir overall with 5 votes, the Schubert & By Farr each got two votes and one vote each for Picardy, Mt Difficulty and Tarrawarra.

Second favourite overall votes were split between the Ten Minutes By Tractor, By Farr and Picardy with three votes each, then Tarrawarra with two and Schubert with one vote.


Food and venue were excellent, what a find! Thanks to everyone who attended and made it a fun event. Thanks to Cam & others who kindly offered to help on the night and Special Thanks to Nic (bobthebuilder) for all the help and support with food ordering & venue organising before and during the event. Safe to say we have now added MissyK's private room to the list of fabulous BYO offline venues!

Have a great weekend everyone.
Cheers
Tim

[maybs]

Awesome, quite a good line up there.

Not surprised to see the Kumeu HH take line honours, some good competition but it is a favourite of mine and with 4 years age in it it is starting to hum.

Good to see the Ten Minutes Pinot holding up well with 9 years on it as well, also I think a very under rated producer.

Great stuff!

[rooman]

Tim

An extra thanks for organising a most excellent evening. You did a great job running the double blind tasting.

Mark

[dingozegan]

Certainly some interesting comparisons and nice to have everything double blind.

With special thanks to Tim for managing the flow, voting, etc so well on the night (and for organising the event in the first place!) and to Nic for restaurant and food selection.

[camw]

Great job with the wines Tim and with the food Nic. Thanks everyone for a fun night with some good wines. Definitely felt like the Chardonnay flights were stronger than the Pinot on the whole.

[odyssey]

A very enjoyable night, thanks Tim for organising and somelliering and Nic for waitering!

Who do I owe for dinner?

[TiggerK]

Very brief (personal) notes on a few of the wines (from memory). Obviously some notable exceptions to the Chardonnay lineup, no Giaconda, LEAS, Hoddles 1er, Neudorf, Lakes Folly, Yattarna, Kumeu Mate's, Vat 47 etc etc. We covered a few more popular labels with the Pinot, but again some big exceptions (Bass Phillip, Bindi, Hoddles 1er, Curly Flat, Pegasus Bay, Felton Road, Bell Hill etc). It would need a pretty big tasting to include all the major contenders but we did OK and can try for more in future!

Chardonnay -

2011 Dry River Chardonnay - Suspect cork let too much air in (possible very low level TCA?), oak and acid dominating. Hoped for more.
* 2014 Oakridge 864 Funder & Diamond Block Chardonnay - Lovely 'burgundy like nose' when poured, quite oaky and reductive though, needs time.
2013 Mcwilliams 842 Chardonnay - Pretty good balance, maybe a hint of flabbiness, lots of winemaker anctics here, result pretty good, should be cheaper though. (I understand this label used to be Barwang 842 at half the price).

2012 By Farr Chardonnay - Pretty classy, quite dense and coiled. Would like to try a 13 or 14 as comparison. Might have starred if not up against the Kumeu next to it.
* 2013 Kumeu River Hunting Hill Chardonnay - (Mine) - Great balance and power with deft oak treatment helping the fruit, not taking over. Lovely acid line, was just as good finished the last small glass today. Needs a good long decant if opening one now. (as do most of the Kumeu's I think). Very happy to still have a couple, will keep for at least a couple more years.
2016 Pooley Cooinda Chardonnay - (Mine) - Also suffered next to the Kumeu, and still too reduced and closed. Some pretty florals on the nose, quite pure and will be interesting with age. Also pleased I have a couple more, 4-5 years before revisiting if I can....

2012 Mount Mary Chardonnay - Needed more decanting time, some disliked it, while some of those liked it more as it saw more air. I liked the balance and it felt less forced and 'winemakered' than the Lethbridge to me, it got my 1st vote.
* 2016 Lethbridge Chardonnay - Big fan of this wine (and this label). The 2016 is great drinking young, feels older already (noticeable by the colour too). But this also leads it to fall over quickly, remains of previous bottles have been quite oxidised on day 2 and undrinkable on day 3, something that didn't happen with 2012 or 2013. (I had a bad bottle of the 2014 which put me off that vintage). But buy the 2016, pop'n'pour, drink the bottle, it's very good.
2010 Grosset Picadilly Chardonnay - Thinking back, I would probably change my vote to this one for the flight actually. Slightly different texturally, more lemon pith and a furryness while being fresh and lower in oak influence. Had the remains on day 2 and really enjoyed it.

2015 Eileen Hardy Chardonnay - less oaky and flabby as stereotypes led me to expect. Really rather good, should be priced around 60 ideally.
* 2015 Serrat Chardonnay - Classy wine as well, hard to find any obvious shortcomings. Liked it.
2005 Mischief & Mayhem Puligny Montrachet 1er Les Caillerets 0/0 (prem-ox'ed) - Not sure if this was made by French growers and then sold to the 2 Aussie Mark's behind the business or made by the Mark's themselves but the prem-ox was strong with this one.

Kumeu River Hunting Hill 2013 was voted Best Chardonnay overall with 8 votes, the Grosset & By Farr also getting a vote or two each.

Second favourite overall votes were split between the Lethbridge and the Grosset at 3 votes each, then Mt Mary with two votes.


Pinot Noir - Was a bit rushed with some of the flights, notes are sparse.

* 2013 Picardy Pinot Noir -(Mine) - Nice balance, not too ripe, not too oaky, Goldilocks.
2013 Mayer Pinot Noir - Can't recall specifics but was OK.
2010 Wooing Tree Pinot Noir - Quite greenish/stalky dominant for me, nah.

2011 Escarpment Pahi Pinot Noir - Had high hopes for this, but was pretty average at best. Poor vintage showing.
* 2012 De Bortoli Riorret Abbey Pinot Noir - didn't have high hopes for this, but was really rather good.
2010 Craggy Range Calvert Pinot Noir - Have enjoyed this label in the past, but this wasn't a good showing, again I got too much of that green stalky note (think I'm quite sensitive to whatever that flavour element is).

2014 Mt Difficulty Pinot Noir - Dark fruited, bit of oak and a touch closed, but not overdone and quite nice.
* 2008 Ten Minutes By Tractor Pinot Noir - Ah signs of age at last! Browning rim, softer and more non-upfront-fruit interest on the palate. Good.
2008 Bouchard Corton Le Corton Grand Cru Burgundy - Thought this was pretty decent, but in a new world soft tannins unremarkable style.

2013 By Farr Tout Pres Pinot Noir - Ooh we see a step up in this flight - Bit more perfume and complexity, needs time.
2014 Tarrawarra Reserve Pinot Noir - Very different to the bottle I tasted at Pinot Palooza recently, less serious, lighter, more lifted and quite interesting. We suspected brett had an influence here somewhere, some loved it others not. I was in the middle, but would happily try it again.
2015 Schubert Marion’s Vineyard Pinot Noir - (Mine) - A bit sweet fruited and oaked, but still young. Overall well made, easy to drink and while not a style I'd rush out and buy (again) )was my pick of the three.

Ten Minutes By Tractor 2008 was voted Best Pinot Noir overall with 5 votes, the Schubert & By Farr each got two votes and one vote each for Picardy, Mt Difficulty and Tarrawarra.

Second favourite overall votes were split between the Ten Minutes By Tractor, By Farr and Picardy with three votes each, then Tarrawarra with two and Schubert with one vote.


Extra Comments: I agree with Cam that the Chardonnays were mostly of a higher quality and I was generally not taken with most of the Pinots. This in part reflects my current drinking tastes and also reinforces my feelings that what I ideally want in a Pinot is hard to find unless you have some proper age and a winemaking style aiming for less forward fruit, more texture, acid and structure. I also prefer the red fruits to the black fruits in my Pinot, although both can show well if the other elements are there.

As I said before, very enjoyable night and thanks for the kind comments above crew. Someone's got to try and herd the cats! Cheers, Tim

[TiggerK]

P.S odyssey and nineredpens - I think you both owe bobthebuilder $80 for the food & tip.

[rooman]

One of the most interesting aspects of the tasting was learning about a new label I’d never heard of before - Lethbridge. I see Kev had it down in the main chardonnay thread as one of his favourites but it was totally new to me. I’ve subsequently looked it up and there appear to be a couple of different chardonnays, do anyone know which one we had?

I’m also curious have people tried any of their other wines. I see they have a cellar door an hour outside Melbourne. I’m keen to get there on my next trip south. Has anyone been to the cellar door?

[TiggerK]

We had the standard 'Estate' Chardonnay, is around $38 or so. Other than a weird and wrong 2014 Chardonnay, I've not had anything from them that wasn't good. Pinot Noir is well worth a look and they did a straight Pinot Meunier in 2014 that I really enjoyed too. Not been to their CD, but I definitely would if down that way. Note I had both their Chardonnay and Pinot Noir down as one of my favourites in that list too, think it was Polymer & dingozegan that put me onto them, very good producer and fairly priced.

[camw]

We had the standard 'Estate' Chardonnay, is around $38 or so. Other than a weird and wrong 2014 Chardonnay, I've not had anything from them that wasn't good. Pinot Noir is well worth a look and they did a straight Pinot Meunier in 2014 that I really enjoyed too. Not been to their CD, but I definitely would if down that way. Note I had both their Chardonnay and Pinot Noir down as one of my favourites in that list too, think it was Polymer & dingozegan that put me onto them, very good producer and fairly priced.

They do a good Riesling as well with a touch of residual sugar, though I haven't tried more recent vintages after the change in vineyard.