Jeremy Oliver

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:58 am

Just flicking through my copy which landed in this morning's post.....
#Comprehensive tasting notes on all current releases of wines listed in the book (a huge effort!)
#A section on his best Australian wines tasted in the past year under $20
#His wine ratings are now based on the 100 point system to fall into line with the majority of other critics(and as a point of reference to other critics scores on the same wines)
#Variations to the "Perfect 1s":
OUT - Bests Thomson Family Shiraz,Katnook Estate Odyssey,Petaluma Chardonnay
IN - Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier,Leo Buring Leonay Eden Valley Riesling,Wolf Blass Platinum Label shiraz

Impressive.

Cheers
Geoff G

JamieBahrain · Post by **JamieBahrain** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:40 am

The "perfect 1" list seems a little fickle.

Should a few tough vintages constitute a fall from grace?

The new format looks good.

guest · Post by **guest** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:06 am

Jamie, I guess JO is more supportive of producers who can still deliver in the tougher years
Cheers
Geoff G

Doc Rock · Post by **Doc Rock** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:14 pm

My Dear Australian Mates,

I purchased Mr. Oliver's annual on two different visits to Australia (the 1998 and 2001) editions.

Is he taken seriously by you folks?

Neither edition even mentions the existence of Wendouree, much less provides a tasting note of any Wendouree wines.

Perhaps it's just my Yank perspective, but it seems a little like a French wine writer who's never said a word about Petrus.

The 2001 edition also excludes many wineries well-familiar to us in The States like Torbreck, Greenock Creek, Yering Station, Veritas, etc.

Doomsdayslayer · Post by **Doomsdayslayer** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:16 pm

Holy Cow!!! JO annointed the Blassie Platy?

douglas neal · Post by **douglas neal** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:13 pm

Jeremy Oliver and collector Craig Caulfield conducted two very magnigicent verticals of Wendouree wines in May of this year. I attended the shiraz - mataro tasting with wines dating back to 1976, the following day was a similar vertical of shiraz. Like all who attended he was excited by the quality and consistency of the wines. He would be the first to admit that this has helped to correct a gap in his tasting experience. It was his intention to include them in one of his publications.

Cellar Rat · Post by **Cellar Rat** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:46 pm

Doc Rock wrote:My Dear Australian Mates,

I purchased Mr. Oliver's annual on two different visits to Australia (the 1998 and 2001) editions.

Is he taken seriously by you folks?

Neither edition even mentions the existence of Wendouree, much less provides a tasting note of any Wendouree wines.

Perhaps it's just my Yank perspective, but it seems a little like a French wine writer who's never said a word about Petrus.

The 2001 edition also excludes many wineries well-familiar to us in The States like Torbreck, Greenock Creek, Yering Station, Veritas, etc.

DR,

IMO, JO is taken very seriously in Asia but not so elsewhere (including OZ). There seems to be no logical explanation for this. FWIW, I do subscribe to his website as it does add some value as a fast database lookup. However, I think that he makes far too many mistakes for a "professional" (i.e. if he worked for me, I'd have fired him long ago!). He also seems to cross the line of acceptability in personal style preference, which also annoys experienced punters. Maybe time will improve on these and the gaps in his tasting experience, but if the bridges are burnt in the meantime, there is no turning back the clock and this will work against him. There are many winemakers that I have spoken to that do not like his sometimes abrasive manner, etc. Some wineries refuse to send him samples, so that explains some of the gaps in his database.

I'm sure Aussie John has more strong feelings on JO than I do - maybe he can post on this topic also.

ChrisH · Post by **ChrisH** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:30 pm

Doc

Wendouree can be polarising, and in my view not a tier 1 winery. In many years, they take far too long to come into balance, if they ever do. I actually think their wines are better in the "lesser' vintages. FYI, I was on their mailing list some years ago, but let it slide.

regards
Chris

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:20 pm

Wendouree probably ought to get a listing - the drinking windows are certainly of interest, and he's been known to give big ratings to Wendourees before. If I subscribed, I'd know more.

Not sure about the new one, but earlier editions didn't list wines in the main body unless he'd tasted three vintages. Torbreck and (I think) Yering Station are in now. Greenock Creek and Veritas are more cultish wines; I suspect that Roennfeldt Road and Hanisch deserve a mention, but perhaps he just doesn't like them much, or hastn't tasted enough. They're a fairly small part of what Australians are likely to drink.

I suspect that quite a few very nice wines are waiting in the wings for inclusion, but space concerns mean he has to be quite picky.

Kieran

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:41 pm

It can be frustrating when a wine critic whose opinion you're interested in doesnÃƒâ€šÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t review the wines you're looking for, but it is even more frustrating when they only review wines you couldnÃƒâ€šÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t possibly buy, either because they are in such limited quantities that you have to have been on the mailing list from day one or they are priced far above your reach.

David Lole · Post by **David Lole** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:24 am

Unfortunately, for wine writers, the general rule is they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

I've been critical of Jeremy's decimal point scoring system in the past. Moving to the 100 point system makes sense.

Tasting notes on latest vintages is another welcome addition.

Whatever shortcomings or misgivings people have regarding JO, he deserves credit for having the guts to do what he does.

ChrisH · Post by **ChrisH** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:26 am

David wrote :

I've been critical of Jeremy's decimal point scoring system in the past. Moving to the 100 point system makes sense.

David, I thought Jeremy uses the Australian show scoring system (points out of twenty). I assume you are saying that he should stick to their system of awarding 1/4 and 1/2 points, not down to 1/10 of a point eg 18.7 ?

I'd agree with that - although I think the equivalent of that in the 100 point system is differentiating between 96 and 97 points for example - that is just as detailed as his system.

regards
Chris

David Lole · Post by **David Lole** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:51 pm

Chris,

Perhaps I should added the word makes "more" sense.

As far as I know, only half points are used in the wineshows and that's enough for me. I once rang Oliver asking for an explanation on the methodology of scoring .1 out of 20 and was politely fobbed off (by someone other than JO).

So, using this modified wineshow system (to 1 decimal point), do you:

Score the colour - 2.7?
Score the nose - 5.8?
Score the palate - 8.9?

Total - 17.4

A bit too pedantic, if you ask me.

If anyone hasn't guessed by now, I'm not a big fan of scoring systems with their vagaries that include chronic overpointing and convenient compaction of scores to a very limited range at the upper end of the scale. Meaningful words/descriptors are all-important and well-defined verbal ratings are just fine by their lonesome.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:56 am

Despite a long run of his guides (97-03) on my shelf, I gave last year's guide (the 04?) a miss, because I finally recognised that just a list of points and drinking windows was of very limited use - and because it was clear to me that many drinking windows were not updated. For example, I think the guide still showed the 1994 Noble One beginning its peak in 2006, by which time I reckon it'll be seriously dead (in 375ml configuration at least).

However, an expanded guide with TNs included sounds much more promising and may prompt me to buy again. I'll keep an eye out.

cheers,
Graeme

Aussie Johns · Post by **Aussie Johns** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:59 am

Rattie,
I've said my piece on J.O., and it doesn't need repeating. People are free to purchase his publication, and make up their own minds.
AJ

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:56 am

Is this available retail yet? I can't find it anywhere in Sydney.

Kieran

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Jeremy Oliver - The Australian Wine Annual 2005

Jeremy Oliver - The Australian Wine Annual 2005