The 2002 red Burgundies are now starting to fill fine wine shops all over the capital cities.
As a regular purchaser and drinker of the Frog stuff, I have become accustomed to the perpetual "hype" the French marketing department launches into with each new vintage. I mean, how many "vintages of the century" can there be??
However, this is one year that well and truly lives up to all the "pre-game hype". 2002 red Burgundy is indeed the 1989 grand final of the wine world- it simply doesn't get any better than this.
I have now tried a huge range of village, PC and GC reds from 2002, and I can say that IMO, this is the grestest vintage from any wine area that I have ever experienced, easily surpassing 1982 Bordeaux and 1986 Coonawarra which were my previous two favourite regional vintages.
My very strong advice is tpo get out there and try some- the village wines are truly amazing, and all I have tried have delivered high-end PC quality at this stage. Magnificent fruit, structure and ripe tannins, these wines are destined to live forever, yet remain utterly slurpable throughoput their journey. All reflect their individual terroir at its absolute best.
Get out there and enjoy!!!!!
PS I have no financial interest in the wine industry.
2002 red Burgundies
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Guest
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Guest2: The Guest Returns
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Aussie Johns
I have been buying new vintages of Burgundy since about 1980, with the scattered bottle before that back to 1975.
The list of good wines is endless, so naming a few is a bit misleading. Try any village wine from the Cote de Nuits, with Vosne Romanee probably my favourite for early drinking. Having said that, Mugnerets NSG's are ball tearers.
Bourgogne generics are also terrific value, but the extra $$$ spent on villages wines is worth it.
The list of good wines is endless, so naming a few is a bit misleading. Try any village wine from the Cote de Nuits, with Vosne Romanee probably my favourite for early drinking. Having said that, Mugnerets NSG's are ball tearers.
Bourgogne generics are also terrific value, but the extra $$$ spent on villages wines is worth it.
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Cellar Rat
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:57 pm
- Location: Canberra
AJ where did you try this epiphany vintage? at the NGV perhaps?; FWOE? DWS' offerings? Ross Duke? Where and whose offerings ? Even for one as blushingly shy in your opininions as your record suggests this is a big statement. More facts if Your Honour pleases.
BTW, I preferred 1973 to 1989 as Grand Finals go, albeit Ablett was better than my boyhood idol Royce Hart.
Neville K
BTW, I preferred 1973 to 1989 as Grand Finals go, albeit Ablett was better than my boyhood idol Royce Hart.
Neville K
Hi AJ,
Your tasting notes on wines from the 2002 vintage that fascinated you would have been an ideal preamble to the sweeping statement that 2002 burgundies are Gods gift to mankind.
Forumites here appreciate notes and discussion about the the wines rather than merely an stated opinion, i.e. the basis for your conclusion needs to come before the conclusion!
Burghound, for instance, thinks it is a consistent vintage at grass root levels and rates 2002 highly but does suggest that there are instances where 2001's perform better than 2002.
Looking forward to your notes.
Sanjay
Your tasting notes on wines from the 2002 vintage that fascinated you would have been an ideal preamble to the sweeping statement that 2002 burgundies are Gods gift to mankind.
Forumites here appreciate notes and discussion about the the wines rather than merely an stated opinion, i.e. the basis for your conclusion needs to come before the conclusion!
Burghound, for instance, thinks it is a consistent vintage at grass root levels and rates 2002 highly but does suggest that there are instances where 2001's perform better than 2002.
Looking forward to your notes.
Sanjay
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Aussie Johns
Sanjay,
I wasn't aware that this was a FRACR Part I exam, and I don't need to back anything up. Seen most of the wines offered by the merchants mentioned above, and I have to say that the line-up of Randall Pollard was incredibly impressive. Was in London last week and tasted my way thru mountains of the stuff.
I will provide a host of tasting notes at some stage, but I just wanted to flag the opportunity to pick up some incredible wines to the members of this forum. Already, large proportions of the stocks around town are sold out, so if you are interested, be quick.
I have now seen close to 60 reds from the 2002 Burgundy vintage, and haven't had a dud yet, so my point is- drop into your local and pick up anything you please.
If you have to have names of the wines I liked the most, then go and find the Nuits St Georges villages from Chevillon, VR from Potel, Gouges, and Mugneret, and just about any Volnay you care to choose (2002 is. IMO, the best CdB vintage in the past 25 years)
It could be argued, as with Meadows, that at the GC level, 2001 provides stiff competition, but I think it is still too early to say.
I wasn't aware that this was a FRACR Part I exam, and I don't need to back anything up. Seen most of the wines offered by the merchants mentioned above, and I have to say that the line-up of Randall Pollard was incredibly impressive. Was in London last week and tasted my way thru mountains of the stuff.
I will provide a host of tasting notes at some stage, but I just wanted to flag the opportunity to pick up some incredible wines to the members of this forum. Already, large proportions of the stocks around town are sold out, so if you are interested, be quick.
I have now seen close to 60 reds from the 2002 Burgundy vintage, and haven't had a dud yet, so my point is- drop into your local and pick up anything you please.
If you have to have names of the wines I liked the most, then go and find the Nuits St Georges villages from Chevillon, VR from Potel, Gouges, and Mugneret, and just about any Volnay you care to choose (2002 is. IMO, the best CdB vintage in the past 25 years)
It could be argued, as with Meadows, that at the GC level, 2001 provides stiff competition, but I think it is still too early to say.
Aussie Johns wrote:Sanjay,
I wasn't aware that this was a FRACR Part I exam
I think AJ meant Fellow Royal Australasian College of Red wine drinkers,
but after 25 years of Burgundy indents why is he not ex officio or at least a senior fellow?
Last edited by Neville K on Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Did anyone from melbourne on this board actually go the Randall 2002 burgundy tasting at the end of August. Would be very interested in your impressions.
Unfortunately here in Sydney we don't have merchants willing to put such comprehensive tastings on as Randalls , the Prince, FWoE etc.
Cheers
Paul
Unfortunately here in Sydney we don't have merchants willing to put such comprehensive tastings on as Randalls , the Prince, FWoE etc.
Cheers
Paul
Last edited by PaulV on Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aussie Johns
Yes, I went.
It was excellent.
See above.
I think Chevillon was the most popular producer on the night. Not suprising, he always makes wines that drink beautifully early, yet still age a treat.
Attended a 2001 and 2002 tasting last week, both vintages are excellent, but the 02 is clearly better across the board, IMO. I think 2001 will turn out pretty similar to 1993. I find it fascinating how much the region has improved over the past decade- it really is now quite uncommon to see those horrible, undrinkable wines that turned the average punter away from Burgundy years ago. Poor winemakers (and there used to be plenty of them) no longer survive in modern Burgundy.
It was excellent.
See above.
I think Chevillon was the most popular producer on the night. Not suprising, he always makes wines that drink beautifully early, yet still age a treat.
Attended a 2001 and 2002 tasting last week, both vintages are excellent, but the 02 is clearly better across the board, IMO. I think 2001 will turn out pretty similar to 1993. I find it fascinating how much the region has improved over the past decade- it really is now quite uncommon to see those horrible, undrinkable wines that turned the average punter away from Burgundy years ago. Poor winemakers (and there used to be plenty of them) no longer survive in modern Burgundy.
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Guest
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Guest
ChrisH wrote:C'mon Neville, own up to the edit - I thought the Le Autres comment was funny anyway.
regards
Chris
I see I got the spelling wrong which I guess makes me the kind of philistine the comment referered to, I do know however that arrogance and righteous superiority are just that even when shrouded by a veil of humour.
I confess I have no idea about Les Autres thread, so cannot claim any credit or ignominy.
I merely changed in FRACR the Australian to Australasian as is the correct nomenclature. I did not wish to offend our champion friends across the Tasman who per capita apparently enjoyed more Olympic success than our Bronzed/ Silvered and Golden aussies so say the NZ newspapers.
I merely changed in FRACR the Australian to Australasian as is the correct nomenclature. I did not wish to offend our champion friends across the Tasman who per capita apparently enjoyed more Olympic success than our Bronzed/ Silvered and Golden aussies so say the NZ newspapers.
Aussie Johns wrote:Sanjay,
I wasn't aware that this was a FRACR Part I exam, and I don't need to back anything up...Seen most of the wines offered by the merchants mentioned above... Was in London last week and tasted my way thru mountains of the stuff.
...
I have now seen close to 60 reds from the 2002 Burgundy vintage, and haven't had a dud yet, so my point is- drop into your local and pick up anything you please.
... It could be argued, as with Meadows, that at the GC level, 2001 provides stiff competition, but I think it is still too early to say.
AJ
Given that the PWS is, with respect, the leading promulgator of ultra-fine imported (and Australasian) wine [no personal interest]-
did you go to the Burgundy 2001 at the PWS - The 'Big Guns' Masterclass
featuring the wines of Comtes Lafon (Meursault), Leroy (Vosne-Romanee), Domaine de la Romanee-Conti (Vosne-Romanee), Armand Rousseau (Gevrey-Chambertin) and Comte Georges de Vogue (Chambolle-Musigny)?
I would be interested in your comparative and contrasting views of the big guns 2001 v 2002 given your earlier pronouncements.
 cf.http://www.auswine.com.au/forum/viewtop ... php?t=6210
AJ said
"Given the expected price increase of the 2002's in response to the small 2003 crop, the premier crus may become scary buying from here on.
Although a Burgundophile, I still laugh at the prices of the upper end wines, and in particular, Vogue's BM. Geeez, his Musigny VV is questionable value at that price, let alone a GC vineyard that usually delivers PC quality!!!"
[http://forum.winestar.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=3858]
BTW " I wasn't aware that this was a FRACR Part I exam" Don't you think AJ it's a bit unbecoming to argue ad hominen? In AFL language, "play the ball, not the man." No behind the play hits please.
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Aussie Johns
No, Nev, I didn't go tp the PWS "masterclass" simply because I have no interest in purchasing those wines, and I think it is somewhat of a shame to waste that level of quality by opening them now, even if it is in the interest of science.
I was really happy to see the PWS 02 offer, which puts the store back into the competitive market. Their offer was comprehensive and very competitively priced, and I took up several of their wines as a result.
I was really happy to see the PWS 02 offer, which puts the store back into the competitive market. Their offer was comprehensive and very competitively priced, and I took up several of their wines as a result.
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Aussie Johns
NWR
NWR
AJ
You do get around:
ÂÂÂ
http://forums1.architosh.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
"Architosh Forums > CAD - Troubleshooting and General Discussion > ArchiCAD
Aussie John
Registered User
version 8 worthy upgrade?
How far do you take the virtual model?
(Before making 2-d drawings)
It seems like everyone has a different way of working, what's yours?
 Aussie John
Registered User
generally only use 2d section windows for some miscellaneous plan details, also window and door elevations. Other wise keep it 3d. I try not to model absolutely everything and often use 2d objects with white fill backgrounds to overlay the 3d model.
I've even used white fills but i dont like doing that.
Unfortunately I dont have version 8 (is only just about to be released in australia) so I cant offer much comment on that new release."
AJ
You do get around:
ÂÂÂ
http://forums1.architosh.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
"Architosh Forums > CAD - Troubleshooting and General Discussion > ArchiCAD
Aussie John
Registered User
version 8 worthy upgrade?
How far do you take the virtual model?
(Before making 2-d drawings)
It seems like everyone has a different way of working, what's yours?
 Aussie John
Registered User
generally only use 2d section windows for some miscellaneous plan details, also window and door elevations. Other wise keep it 3d. I try not to model absolutely everything and often use 2d objects with white fill backgrounds to overlay the 3d model.
I've even used white fills but i dont like doing that.
Unfortunately I dont have version 8 (is only just about to be released in australia) so I cant offer much comment on that new release."
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Aussie Johns
OK, I have a little bit of time to post some notes on the 2002 red burgundies I have tried.
This set comes from a fascinating dinner I attended in London a fortnight ago, where a horizontal of 2002 villages wines were presented.
To me, this may be the strength of the vintage- it has no weak spots, and demonstrates classic qualities over all four tiers of the region. (from generics right thru the GC's)
The villages wines are already drinking beautifully on the whole, but all seem to have the structure to age for at least a decade. Kind of like a 97 and a 96 all wrapt into one bottle.
Some of these wines are available over here, but unfortunately, the Poms have an infinitely greater range to choose from than us. I can say, however, that the prices over here are very competitive indeed, particularly when taxes and shipping are taken into account.
On to the wines:
Francois Gay Aloxe Corton
One of the few wines that could usea year or three, a little closed at the time. Full bodied, yet utterly focussed, fruit in the red cherry spectrum, with great complexity and length. The sweet fruit is soooo appealing
Drink: 2007-2015+...........................93pts
Patrice Rion Gevrey Chambertin
From the "clos prieur" vineyard, this is a little new-world in style, offering abundant ripe fruit in the black cherry spectrum, but again retaining a focus and minerality I am yet to see in Oz pinots. A stunning crowd pleaser, this was voted the WOTN but the large majority. The trouble with scoring this wine so highly, is that where do you go with the PC's, let alone the GC's???
Drink: now-2015+.............................96pts
Mugneret-Gibourg Vosne Romanee
My favourite commune, and this did not disappoint. A superb, complex bolckbuster. Bright cherry with crystal clarity, the long palate has got the lot- minerals, spices, flowers, red fruits, a touch of that Vosne anise, and wonderful round tannins. Brilliant.
Drink: now-2020..............................96pts
Michel Lafarge Volnay
Medium bodied and quite tannic, as befits a good Volnay from a great vintage. Long and focussed, but the fruit is yet to fully shine. Give this another 4-5 years to really let it show its stuff, the quality stuffing of this wine is just hiding at the moment.
Drink: 2010-2020.............................90pts
Robert Chevillon Nuits St Georges
Of particular interest, as this producer is freely available in Oz. Dark red, this is again a massive wine "packed and stacked", but retaining a laser-loke focus. Unbelievable complexity for a villages wine, I rated this my WOTN. This is simply and amazing effort- get your hands on some of this before they slip out the door!!
Drink: now-2020+..........................97pts
Hudellot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny
One of my favourite domaines, this is their best CM [/i]villages to date.
As with the wines of this commune, amazing nose of coffee, hung game, earth, plums and licqorice. A touch of vanilla from the new oak is rightly present in the background to add to the complexity. Stunning length. I think this is also available here.
Drink: 2005-2020+.......................95pts
So there it is, half a dozen villages wines spanning much of Burgundy, and all representative of their terroir. All would be great additions to any cellar, and all woul;d be priced at the same level as the premium end of the Oz pinot market. Yet the quality between the two regions, particularly in great years such as 2002, remains incomparable.
This set comes from a fascinating dinner I attended in London a fortnight ago, where a horizontal of 2002 villages wines were presented.
To me, this may be the strength of the vintage- it has no weak spots, and demonstrates classic qualities over all four tiers of the region. (from generics right thru the GC's)
The villages wines are already drinking beautifully on the whole, but all seem to have the structure to age for at least a decade. Kind of like a 97 and a 96 all wrapt into one bottle.
Some of these wines are available over here, but unfortunately, the Poms have an infinitely greater range to choose from than us. I can say, however, that the prices over here are very competitive indeed, particularly when taxes and shipping are taken into account.
On to the wines:
Francois Gay Aloxe Corton
One of the few wines that could usea year or three, a little closed at the time. Full bodied, yet utterly focussed, fruit in the red cherry spectrum, with great complexity and length. The sweet fruit is soooo appealing
Drink: 2007-2015+...........................93pts
Patrice Rion Gevrey Chambertin
From the "clos prieur" vineyard, this is a little new-world in style, offering abundant ripe fruit in the black cherry spectrum, but again retaining a focus and minerality I am yet to see in Oz pinots. A stunning crowd pleaser, this was voted the WOTN but the large majority. The trouble with scoring this wine so highly, is that where do you go with the PC's, let alone the GC's???
Drink: now-2015+.............................96pts
Mugneret-Gibourg Vosne Romanee
My favourite commune, and this did not disappoint. A superb, complex bolckbuster. Bright cherry with crystal clarity, the long palate has got the lot- minerals, spices, flowers, red fruits, a touch of that Vosne anise, and wonderful round tannins. Brilliant.
Drink: now-2020..............................96pts
Michel Lafarge Volnay
Medium bodied and quite tannic, as befits a good Volnay from a great vintage. Long and focussed, but the fruit is yet to fully shine. Give this another 4-5 years to really let it show its stuff, the quality stuffing of this wine is just hiding at the moment.
Drink: 2010-2020.............................90pts
Robert Chevillon Nuits St Georges
Of particular interest, as this producer is freely available in Oz. Dark red, this is again a massive wine "packed and stacked", but retaining a laser-loke focus. Unbelievable complexity for a villages wine, I rated this my WOTN. This is simply and amazing effort- get your hands on some of this before they slip out the door!!
Drink: now-2020+..........................97pts
Hudellot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny
One of my favourite domaines, this is their best CM [/i]villages to date.
As with the wines of this commune, amazing nose of coffee, hung game, earth, plums and licqorice. A touch of vanilla from the new oak is rightly present in the background to add to the complexity. Stunning length. I think this is also available here.
Drink: 2005-2020+.......................95pts
So there it is, half a dozen villages wines spanning much of Burgundy, and all representative of their terroir. All would be great additions to any cellar, and all woul;d be priced at the same level as the premium end of the Oz pinot market. Yet the quality between the two regions, particularly in great years such as 2002, remains incomparable.
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Pinot Boy
Okay AJ, you're not getting off that lightly! I just picked up multiple bottles of the Robert Chevillon Nuits St Georges 2002 and the Hudellot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny 2002. While I don't really expect them to score as highly as you say (I'm figuring that you were just making a point) I am expecting that they'll perform well - if they don't, watch out! I'll drink them with food, with no other bottles opened, in proper glasses, to give them their best chance. I'll muse over them through the course of an evening. Let's put your beloved wines to the test!
I hope you are right. When it is good, red burgundy is my favourite drink.
I will report back.
PB.
I hope you are right. When it is good, red burgundy is my favourite drink.
I will report back.
PB.
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CanberraGuy
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Aussie Johns
Pinot Boy wrote:Okay AJ, you're not getting off that lightly! I just picked up multiple bottles of the Robert Chevillon Nuits St Georges 2002 and the Hudellot-Noellat Chambolle-Musigny 2002. While I don't really expect them to score as highly as you say (I'm figuring that you were just making a point) I am expecting that they'll perform well - if they don't, watch out! I'll drink them with food, with no other bottles opened, in proper glasses, to give them their best chance. I'll muse over them through the course of an evening. Let's put your beloved wines to the test!
I hope you are right. When it is good, red burgundy is my favourite drink.
I will report back.
PB.
Yes....the scores are in the context of some of the scores I have seen posted here for Oz pinot- I would guestimate I have seen over 500 Oz pinots over the past three decades, and none have ever scored above 91.
If a Bindi or Bass Phillip can score 97points, then what would you score a 78 DRC??????? ....about 168 on my book.
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Cellar Rat
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:57 pm
- Location: Canberra
AJ,
I'll be doing a comparative tasting of some village and bourg 02's next week. I'll report back whether I agree or disagree with you via TNs. To be fair, what are reasonable oz pinots to compare with the village 02s (i.e. $60-70 price point) ? On hand, I have Curlewis reserve 02 and Giaconda pinot 02 (yes I know what you're thinking - Beechworth pinots suck in general, but 02 is supposed to be an atypically good year). Any others worthy of being included (Bindi's don't show well when young) ?
I'll be doing a comparative tasting of some village and bourg 02's next week. I'll report back whether I agree or disagree with you via TNs. To be fair, what are reasonable oz pinots to compare with the village 02s (i.e. $60-70 price point) ? On hand, I have Curlewis reserve 02 and Giaconda pinot 02 (yes I know what you're thinking - Beechworth pinots suck in general, but 02 is supposed to be an atypically good year). Any others worthy of being included (Bindi's don't show well when young) ?
Cheers,
CR
CR
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Aussie Johns
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Cellar Rat
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:57 pm
- Location: Canberra
ChrisH wrote:What about Bannockburn - although cheaper should stand up well. Also Coldstream Hills Reserve and Diamond Valley White Label.
Will be interested in your notes Ratty.
regards
Chris
Chris,
I've got older vintages of lots of pinots, but I'd like to compare 02's with 02's at the same price point (approx). I don't think Bannockburn Pinot 02 has been released. CH reserve 02 is an option though.
Cheers,
CR
CR