What to buy from Greenock Creek Mailer 2014?

[mse]

Dear fellow members,

I have finally received the mailer for Greenock Creek wines, I noticed that the retailers and secondary markets (i.e. langtons) don't respond well (price hike) to their 2 figure price tag reds (the non-Roennfeldt Road range). Would it be better off just order the Roennfeldt Road reds from mailer then buy their other reds from retailers for potentially lower prices?
Would anyone like to share their thoughts and advise what would you order from the mailer?

Thanks
Michael

[Sa Mule]

Hi Michael,

I've only had RR shiraz once and at ~$190 I can't justify the purchase. VFM definately lies in the GC shiraz that hasn't been elevated into the stratosphere by Parker points.
Is the RR range a regular purchase for you?

[Hacker]

I'm afraid I am not a fan, especially as they have gone back to corks (!!??) More for others.

[vovo]

I was chatting to them at the cellar door in august and asked them about it and they said that the cork supplier was going to guarantee the wine under their corks. One would assume very high quality cork would be used for the supplier to take on that risk especially with an icon wine. It also might not be quite as simple as I was lead to believe.

[Polymer]

Concerning their prices..

I doubt you will find their normal line cheaper retail...I'm guessing this year was a price hike? But even so, I wouldn't expect to find them cheaper out there..

[Cactus]

I received the mailer and just ordered a spread of the non-RR wines. I got several of the 2011 vintage a few months ago, first time I tried the wine. Not sure it was completely my thing, quite huge fruity wines, but I think on one it was a little grassy (maybe the Alices?) that threw me a bit. Anyway, I thought I would try the 2012's to see what they look like in a good vintage.

For those who dont have the mailor - price list
2013 Cornerstone Grenache $29
2012 Cab Sav $38
2012 Alices Shiraz $30
2012 Apricot Block Shiraz $38
2012 Seven Acre Shiraz $48
2009 RR Shiraz $192
2009 RR Cab Sav $192

There is also a few magnums available and yes everything has gone back to cork. Not ideal in my view, but I know there are a few cork-lovers out there.

[Gavin Trott]

.

Us small retailers buying from smaller wine producers, like Greenock Creek Wines (whom I do buy from, and sell), and pricing is a fascinating point.

Its also incredibly varied.

Some producers sell to us retailers at a 'suitable' price, in other words, they sell to me at a price that allows my sell price to be about the same as theirs. This is, of course, a BIG generalization, as margins vary, discounts vary etc etc, but mostly it holds true.

Others do the other extreme, sell to me such that my price to customers MUST be significantly higher than their own. To protect their direct sales, I imagine.

I used to purchase from one, who sold it to me at the exact same price as their retail ... that is, if you in cellar door paid $45.00 per bottle, they would then charge me, $45.00 per bottle. Naturally, I could not then get anywhere close to their price, with the smallest margin, I was still much more expensive.

Mind you, when a couple of my customers had a real 'go' at me for my 'exorbitant markups ripping them off', it caused me a few problems.

I no longer buy from them.

Now this is, of course, their choice, its their wine, and I did not take it personally, but have moved on.

Greenock Creek are somewhere in the middle, a little confusingly in the middle. I am working out now whether to stock and sell their wines, have tried them all etc etc. Pricing, well, a couple of the wines they have priced (by this I mean what I have to pay to buy the wine), such that I will retail at about the same as their prices.

Others, they have priced such that it will be very difficult for me to be close to their prices.

Two others, there is NO WAY I can be close. Indeed, a little like the above, I must buy them almost at the full cellar door prices!

So there you have it, confusing, and part of the reality of a small independent retailer!

.

[ufo]

I'm afraid I am not a fan, especially as they have gone back to corks (!!??) More for others.

+1, received the mailer and could not believe my eyes reading that they went back to cork

[rossmckay]

I'm afraid I am not a fan, especially as they have gone back to corks (!!??) More for others.

+1, received the mailer and could not believe my eyes reading that they went back to cork

Me 3, binned it, never to return

[Sa Mule]

Me 4! Cannot understand the logic. Regressive.

[phillisc]

Yes interesting one this, got the mailer yesterday and will probably get a few.
Even Whitey has a huge issue with corks, but happy to review the wines.

I am at a loss however, how could GC "actually " replace a magnum with 20 years on it, if it was TCA affected...Michael Waugh will be in his 80s...guarantees will be hard to get by then.
Why not do what Doug Bowen has done, offer 50/50 cork/stelvin closures and give customers a choice and look at what sells out first.
I suspect that the big brutes that a lot of GC wines are that they have not moved in 5 years under stelvin and may indeed be the same in 25....who knows.

Interesting views re cork...will the October release of the 2010 great white hope (sorry red, but you get the picture) before the takeover occurs, get the snub from all the purists or will rose coloured glasses be the order of the day?

Thanks for your thoughtful insight Gavin re price.
I don't have any issue with businesses making a profit, but what I do have an issue with is grossly inflated RRPs that are way above CPI and like the starting price on a Persian rug absolutely meaningless.

Cheers
Craig

[Michael McNally]

Us small retailers buying from smaller wine producers, like Greenock Creek Wines (whom I do buy from, and sell), and pricing is a fascinating point.

Its also incredibly varied.

Some producers sell to us retailers at a 'suitable' price, in other words, they sell to me at a price that allows my sell price to be about the same as theirs. This is, of course, a BIG generalization, as margins vary, discounts vary etc etc, but mostly it holds true.

Others do the other extreme, sell to me such that my price to customers MUST be significantly higher than their own. To protect their direct sales, I imagine.

I used to purchase from one, who sold it to me at the exact same price as their retail ... that is, if you in cellar door paid $45.00 per bottle, they would then charge me, $45.00 per bottle. Naturally, I could not then get anywhere close to their price, with the smallest margin, I was still much more expensive.

Mind you, when a couple of my customers had a real 'go' at me for my 'exorbitant markups ripping them off', it caused me a few problems.

I no longer buy from them.

Now this is, of course, their choice, its their wine, and I did not take it personally, but have moved on.

Greenock Creek are somewhere in the middle, a little confusingly in the middle. I am working out now whether to stock and sell their wines, have tried them all etc etc. Pricing, well, a couple of the wines they have priced (by this I mean what I have to pay to buy the wine), such that I will retail at about the same as their prices.

Others, they have priced such that it will be very difficult for me to be close to their prices.

Two others, there is NO WAY I can be close. Indeed, a little like the above, I must buy them almost at the full cellar door prices!

So there you have it, confusing, and part of the reality of a small independent retailer!

Interesting, thanks Gavin. I have always wondered about how the wineries operate in this environment without undercutting their own sales (too much).

Cheers

Michael

[felixp]

I still got about 8 bottles each of the 1996 Creek block and 1996 Seven Acres shiraz…. they have been perfectly cellared since release at 13C, professional storage area, and both are crap, each at least five years past it.
GC drinks well young, the Apricot block is excellent if you like that style, but do not bother cellaring them. FWIW, IMO the only GC wine that actually improves with cellaring is the Cornerstone grenache!!!

[mse]

Hi Michael,

I've only had RR shiraz once and at ~$190 I can't justify the purchase. VFM definately lies in the GC shiraz that hasn't been elevated into the stratosphere by Parker points.
Is the RR range a regular purchase for you?

Hi Sa Mule,

I only purchased the 2007 release (3 bottles of each non-RR reds, all 05' vintage except Grenache which was 06'), 4 bottles of RR Shiraz 02', no RR Cabernet left by the time I ordered.

I am hoping to get some RR Cab for 2010, I don't mind trying the RR 09's.

[Ozzie W]

Some producers sell to us retailers at a 'suitable' price, in other words, they sell to me at a price that allows my sell price to be about the same as theirs. This is, of course, a BIG generalization, as margins vary, discounts vary etc etc, but mostly it holds true.

Others do the other extreme, sell to me such that my price to customers MUST be significantly higher than their own. To protect their direct sales, I imagine.

There's another scenario I often encounter which I'll illustrate with an example. There's a particular winery which I won't name where I'm a club member. In this club, I have to commit to buying a certain amount of wines each year. For my commitment, I get a 15% discount off the cellar door prices. However, I can easily buy most of their wines cheaper from various online retailers. This really irks me and it just doesn't make sense. Why do you think they do this?

[phillisc]

Some producers sell to us retailers at a 'suitable' price, in other words, they sell to me at a price that allows my sell price to be about the same as theirs. This is, of course, a BIG generalization, as margins vary, discounts vary etc etc, but mostly it holds true.

Others do the other extreme, sell to me such that my price to customers MUST be significantly higher than their own. To protect their direct sales, I imagine.

There's another scenario I often encounter which I'll illustrate with an example. There's a particular winery which I won't name where I'm a club member. In this club, I have to commit to buying a certain amount of wines each year. For my commitment, I get a 15% discount off the cellar door prices. However, I can easily buy most of their wines cheaper from various online retailers. This really irks me and it just doesn't make sense. Why do you think they do this?

Ozzie you are right on the coin here.
I too was a member of one particular "wine club" which is a winery that is part of the behemoth.
When I first joined in 1994 I was given a magnum for free...amazing, but yes probably a little naïve perhaps as then I was informed that an annual spend was required. I was happy to do this because the prices were still well under retail, in fact very close to wholesale.
Then like all good things it came to an end...corporate greed and suddenly you are just a little man.
Being part of the club gives them the excuse that you are something really special and therefore you gonna have to pay dearly for the privilege....what bloody privilege.

I kindly wrote to the winery that the chains were selling the wines at 30% less, the clubs excuse was that these are prices less the rubbery RRPs which are largely fictitious.
I kindly wrote to the winery again, why would I pay $129:99c when I could get it for $88:00, could you please get close to matching it.
I kindly wrote to the winery again kindly explaining that price was now prohibitive and I can't afford what they were asking...no response.
I emailed and blasted them...got a response that I was rude and inappropriate and delisted from the club...hoo bloody ray

I gave them a response that I have purchased all wines released from the 2008, 09, 10 and 12 vintages and have saved about $3000 to date through buying from the chains.

My advice Ozzie, start your own club, make membership free, open a few bottles with friends, get to an offline...it will be much cheaper, much more enjoyable and far less pretentious.

Cheers
Craig.

[Ozzie W]

Ozzie you are right on the coin here.
I too was a member of one particular "wine club" which is a winery that is part of the behemoth.
When I first joined in 1994 I was given a magnum for free...amazing, but yes probably a little naïve perhaps as then I was informed that an annual spend was required. I was happy to do this because the prices were still well under retail, in fact very close to wholesale.
Then like all good things it came to an end...corporate greed and suddenly you are just a little man.
Being part of the club gives them the excuse that you are something really special and therefore you gonna have to pay dearly for the privilege....what bloody privilege.

I kindly wrote to the winery that the chains were selling the wines at 30% less, the clubs excuse was that these are prices less the rubbery RRPs which are largely fictitious.
I kindly wrote to the winery again, why would I pay $129:99c when I could get it for $88:00, could you please get close to matching it.
I kindly wrote to the winery again kindly explaining that price was now prohibitive and I can't afford what they were asking...no response.
I emailed and blasted them...got a response that I was rude and inappropriate and delisted from the club...hoo bloody ray

I gave them a response that I have purchased all wines released from the 2008, 09, 10 and 12 vintages and have saved about $3000 to date through buying from the chains.

My advice Ozzie, start your own club, make membership free, open a few bottles with friends, get to an offline...it will be much cheaper, much more enjoyable and far less pretentious.

Cheers
Craig.

A 30% margin is preposterous and shows no respect whatsoever to club members! The winery I'm referring to is only about 3% more expensive than some online retailers after my 15% club discount. But still, my loyalty should be rewarded, not penalised.

Putting your advice into practice tomorrow night. Attending my first Auswine offline in Melbourne.

[rednut]

Went to GC two weeks ago. Love their Grenache and purchase it every year as I do with the Alices.
As for their decision to go back to cork meh.
I like em and all their wines I have consumed over the years after careful and correct storage are excellent.
I still have 2 bottles left of some 1999 Creek Block I bought from Torb some years ago, I had one last year and it was delightful still.
Horses for courses I spose.

[Polymer]

I gave them a response that I have purchased all wines released from the 2008, 09, 10 and 12 vintages and have saved about $3000 to date through buying from the chains.

Why would you buy from them after that?

It doesn't matter that you saved money buying them from a retailer...you still bought their wine aka they made money from you.

I suppose if it is just wine you can't live without then maybe people would bend but really, if I had a bad experience with a place, I just don't see why I'd want to buy wine from them..it isn't like there aren't many different alternatives..so many good things out there, I don't see why I'd give my money to a place that has treated me poorly...

[phillisc]

I gave them a response that I have purchased all wines released from the 2008, 09, 10 and 12 vintages and have saved about $3000 to date through buying from the chains.

Why would you buy from them after that?

It doesn't matter that you saved money buying them from a retailer...you still bought their wine aka they made money from you.

I suppose if it is just wine you can't live without then maybe people would bend but really, if I had a bad experience with a place, I just don't see why I'd want to buy wine from them..it isn't like there aren't many different alternatives..so many good things out there, I don't see why I'd give my money to a place that has treated me poorly...

Yes of course they made money from me Polymer.
The winery got their cheque from the retailer, the retailer got their money from me. Simply the amount I paid was less.
Yes someone gets the coin eventually from somewhere...what's the problem other than the customer wishing to be a little less gouged and a little less blatantly ripped off...I guess all of us get ripped off as everyone in the chain wants their cut.

Your point about customer service and general dissatisfaction is a more pertinent one for me, that is why I stopped buying wine from this and other producers.
However, emotions play a big part in a purchase, particularly wine.
If it did not, then every bottle talked about on this forum from every winery from every continent would be the same.
Of course we know that this is not the case, as subjectivity plays a major part.
Sometimes you endure a bit of pain to get what you want.
Then you may be in the position to make a rational decision of being able to walk away and do something else, which is what I have done.

I admire people after enduring a bad experience (maybe on just one occasion) to say never again.
If that was the case, I would never fly, buy another car, take out a mortgage, buy a CD...you get the picture.
Agreed there are alternatives where one hopefully gets a better experience.

Perhaps a thread could be started..."wines that you never wanted to buy, but somehow found a home in your cellar"
Might be a few million posts on that one.

Cheers
Craig

[phillisc]

Anyway I have successfully hijacked this thread...apologies.
Just sent off for a mixed dozen of Alice's, Apricot and Seven acre
Plus a few magnums.

Will risk the cork

Cheers
Craig.

[Brucer]

What to buy?

For me.....nothing.
I used to buy heaps each year, but they dont age well, and going back to cork is not my idea of fun.
Let them sell it all to Asia.
Plenty of other wines around.

[Redwine&Rum]

I'm a fan of GC. I luckily haven't had the problem of cock taint yet, touch wood.
Haven't tasted the Creek Block (which they no longer make), but probably the Apricot Block is my favourite. I love fruit.
Will probably get a few Apricot Block and Seven Acre.

[ticklenow1]

I'll buy my usual 12-18 bottles and possibly a couple of Magnums. I love the Grenache and the Cabernet and have never been disappointed by them bar a couple of vintages in the mid '00's when the alcohol got too high, even for me who is fairly tolerant of it. But I like the style and am not as concerned as others about the cork issue - until you get a corked bottle of course. As long as they replace said corked bottle, I'm not too worried. Greenock Creek certainly polarise opinion with their style that's for sure!

Cheers
Ian

[camw]

I gave them a response that I have purchased all wines released from the 2008, 09, 10 and 12 vintages and have saved about $3000 to date through buying from the chains.

Why would you buy from them after that?

It doesn't matter that you saved money buying them from a retailer...you still bought their wine aka they made money from you.

I suppose if it is just wine you can't live without then maybe people would bend but really, if I had a bad experience with a place, I just don't see why I'd want to buy wine from them..it isn't like there aren't many different alternatives..so many good things out there, I don't see why I'd give my money to a place that has treated me poorly...

Agree 100%. There aren't a huge number but there are a few places that have treated me poorly so I simply don't buy their wines any more via any method. If anything I might buy at auction so they don't get direct money from me but I'd probably still remember the bad experience when opening a bottle so not worth it - as you say, way too much other good stuff available from producers that care about their customers.

[9redpens]

Agree 100%. There aren't a huge number but there are a few places that have treated me poorly so I simply don't buy their wines any more via any method. If anything I might buy at auction so they don't get direct money from me but I'd probably still remember the bad experience when opening a bottle so not worth it - as you say, way too much other good stuff available from producers that care about their customers.

list them, LIST THEM!!!

Only joking don't want to cause any trouble, just a play on the other famous CAMW words

[Mike Hawkins]

I luckily haven't had the problem of cock taint yet, touch wood.

There's so much I was tempted to write in response, but will leave it to those wittier than I am....

[Redwine&Rum]

haha. Christ. Didn't even see that. Must have had something else on my mind. I'm not going to edit the post though. It's hilarious. Needs to stay up

[felixp]

What to buy?

For me.....nothing.
I used to buy heaps each year, but they dont age well, and going back to cork is not my idea of fun.
Let them sell it all to Asia.
Plenty of other wines around.

I live in Asia (China to be exact)
trust me, no-one in asia is interested in GC wines. If you have heard otherwise, that is total BS. I have seen it occasionally in the western supermarket in Shenzhen (Ole in OTC) but it does not seem move at all.
the wines are just too big for asian food, they need a big hunk of dead cow seared on the BBQ, not delicate pork and fish dishes.
and you are correct, they simply do not improve with age, but if you like the style, they taste great young!!!!

[phillisc]

I gave them a response that I have purchased all wines released from the 2008, 09, 10 and 12 vintages and have saved about $3000 to date through buying from the chains.

Why would you buy from them after that?

It doesn't matter that you saved money buying them from a retailer...you still bought their wine aka they made money from you.

I suppose if it is just wine you can't live without then maybe people would bend but really, if I had a bad experience with a place, I just don't see why I'd want to buy wine from them..it isn't like there aren't many different alternatives..so many good things out there, I don't see why I'd give my money to a place that has treated me poorly...

Agree 100%. There aren't a huge number but there are a few places that have treated me poorly so I simply don't buy their wines any more via any method. If anything I might buy at auction so they don't get direct money from me but I'd probably still remember the bad experience when opening a bottle so not worth it - as you say, way too much other good stuff available from producers that care about their customers.

So Cam, you give your money to an auction house in procuring wines from wineries that have treated you poorly and I in the same instance buy them from a retailer...what's the difference?
Particularly if said eastern seaboard auction house and retailer are owned by the same company.
Anyway my days of buying from companies that don't support me have finished.

Yes I do wonder if it is all worth it.
On a more positive note, I have just brought a couple of mixed cases of Barossa wines from a very small maker on the back of contacting them after having a spur of the moment bottle in the Greenock Creek Tavern.
Have not had their wines for years but great VFM.
I gave them an email, they were great, even offered me the opportunity to purchase back vintages.

Cheers
Craig