Some direction for a novice.

[bigtinnie]

Hi All
I've been reading some posts for a couple of months so I thought I'd become a member.
I'm 41 and have only in the last couple of years really enjoyed wine. Previously I was a beer and spirits drinker. I have swapped the spirits for red wine. I don't enjoy white wine generally. The reds I prefer are the heavy full bodied ones. I have a particular distaste for wine that feels like a mouthful of water - even if it does taste good.
Because I like the full bodied reds I normally buy Cab Savs. My favourites are Mamre Brook and Wynns Black Label. I also like some Cabernet Shiraz blends like Majella the Musician, Metala white label etc. I do also like a Cab Merlot if it is heavy on the Cab side - the WA ones are great.
I do really like the actual taste of some Shiraz but tend to shy away because I haven't had too many that are truly full bodied.
Could you point me in the right direction of some big heavy Shiraz's please? Or do they not exist?
I'm in Brisbane and have the standard Dan Murphys at my disposal. I tend to pay around $15 to $20 for a bottle but I'm open to spending a bit more. I do plan on purchasing a few more expensive bottles for special occasions too.
Any suggestions?

[griff]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I would be looking at warmer climate areas such as langhorne creek - bremerton and lake breeze are good names to go to in addition to Metala which was excellent in 2010 as Phil has stated in the past. McLaren Vale also produces a wine with more stuffing. But a question first, is it the fruit or is it the tannin extract that appeals? Cabernet has more tannin than Shiraz in general. I'm sure some others will have some suggestions.

cheers

Carl

[bigtinnie]

I think it is the tannins that appeal.
Thanks for the suggestions. I have heard of the Lake Breeze and will give that a go.

[Milan]

Hi Bigtinnie,

For around $15-20+ consider the following...

1.) Wallace Shiraz Grenache. Generally $20. Excellent full-bodied style with upfront fruit, great mid-weight palate and lengthy finish.

2.) Bishop Shiraz. Made by the same person that does Wallace (Ben Glaetzer). Full bodied Barossa style with elegant fruit, minus the overt fruitcake profile typical of Barossa reds. $38 approx.

3.) Guigal Cote du Rhone (French). A red blend of Syrah/Shiraz, Grenache and Carignan from memory. Superb fruit upfront again, more savoury and spiced than Australian reds. $20 approx...great value Southern Rhone red.

Try those three for now and let me know how you get on...

Cheers.

[bigtinnie]

Thanks for the tips. Looking forward to it.

[cuttlefish]

If it's big tannins you're after, the following producers (all Coonawarra) all have their wines made by Peter Bissell, and he's big on tannins...
Balnaves, Parker, Punters Corner.
I suspect you may also find some of the better Rutherglen reds appealing. Durif, Shiraz, and even Cabernet from there may be to your tastes.
Just out of interest, which Margaret River producers reds have you liked so far ?

[bigtinnie]

If it's big tannins you're after, the following producers (all Coonawarra) all have their wines made by Peter Bissell, and he's big on tannins...
Balnaves, Parker, Punters Corner.
I suspect you may also find some of the better Rutherglen reds appealing. Durif, Shiraz, and even Cabernet from there may be to your tastes.
Just out of interest, which Margaret River producers reds have you liked so far ?

This may be like driving a Holden but I had a Evans and Tate Margaret River Cab Merlot last night. It was a 2008. I was given it by a work mate who went to Perth on holiday recently. I thought it would have been well and truly past its best but I really liked it.
The Merlots generally do not age well do they?

[cuttlefish]

If it's big tannins you're after, the following producers (all Coonawarra) all have their wines made by Peter Bissell, and he's big on tannins...
Balnaves, Parker, Punters Corner.
I suspect you may also find some of the better Rutherglen reds appealing. Durif, Shiraz, and even Cabernet from there may be to your tastes.
Just out of interest, which Margaret River producers reds have you liked so far ?

This may be like driving a Holden but I had a Evans and Tate Margaret River Cab Merlot last night. It was a 2008. I was given it by a work mate who went to Perth on holiday recently. I thought it would have been well and truly past its best but I really liked it.
The Merlots generally do not age well do they?

There's no reason why a merlot wouldn't age, so long as it hasn't been grown too ripe and lost all of its acidity (assists in providing good structure). If you can grow merlot, and get it flavour-ripe, and be able to pick the fruit before it starts to drop its acid then you're well on your way, I would have thought.
Getting back on topic though, Cabernet Sauvignon is one of the later ripening grape varieties, and it does seem to love the conditions in Margaret River. I find Margaret River Cabernet quite tough going when it's young. It can take them years to loosen up, and sometimes decades for them to really peak. Throwing in some merlot does no harm to their aging potential.
Horses for courses, though...there's no point aging them if you prefer them young.
I tell you what, though, if you do like Margaret River cab and cab merlot blends then there has hardly been a better time to purchase them in terms of across the board quality. They've had a continuing run of really strong vintages. 2006 is the only one I've heard bad things about (too cool and couldn't get anything ripe)

[penguinoid]

There's no reason why a merlot wouldn't age, so long as it hasn't been grown too ripe and lost all of its acidity (assists in providing good structure). If you can grow merlot, and get it flavour-ripe, and be able to pick the fruit before it starts to drop its acid then you're well on your way, I would have thought.

With regards to the ageability of Merlot, it's worth noting that a lot of the Right Bank Bordeaux appelations (Saint-Emilion. Pomerol, etc) are Merlot dominated. These do indeed age quite well...

Back to the actual question, I'd suggest trying a few independent wines stores as well as Dan Murphy's. The Wine Emporium (47/1000 Ann Street, Fortitude Valley) has a pretty good selection, from memory. I don't remember the staff being that helpful, though. I'm sure there are others, though I don't know Brisbane well enough to suggest any.

There are a lot of very "big" shirazes, but they tend not be be as tannic as Cabernet Sauvignons. Since you like Wynn's Cabernets, I'd suggst you try some other Coonawarra Cabernets. Parker Estate are very good, as is Yalumba The Menzies. Maybe try some Barossa Cabernets too, just for contrast -- Elderton make a couple of good Cabernets, as do Rockford (if you can find them!).

[via collins]

Agree with Penguinoid that the fun starts when you move out of the obvious.

I'm in Brisbane and have the standard Dan Murphys at my disposal.

In fact, you have a world of on-line options, including the excellent shop that you can click at top left of this page. Gavin of Auswine.com.au is a wine lover first and foremost, and if you e-mail him with a loose description of what you're looking for in taste, he'll sort you out well. And the cost of freight is easily recouped by quality product that arrives at your door.

Regarding merlot, what everyone here has said. I still have a few 2001 and 2002 Voyager Estate CSMs that have always been great, but seem to become a little greater each year!

[REDRUM]

Check out Nectar in West End as well - primarily craft beers I think, but I remember there being heaps of interesting wines in there as well..

[maveric74]

How about a Chris Ringland shiraz from Barossa? I believe it is available at Dan Murphys and is around $20 per bottle?
Also, a few weeks ago in the James Halliday Top 100 wines extract from the Weekend Australian, he rated Angove Long Row Shiraz (priced at an insane $9!) at 92 points. Surely worth a try, right? And also available via Dan Murphys.
Could I also just say this if you don't mind? Even though you may not like a particular style of wine i.e. white wine or softer reds, I still think it is worthwhile to try and taste as much as you can. Your palate keeps changing and adapting over time and one of the best things I like about trying different varieties/grapes/blends and styles of wines? The sense of adventure and fun I recently came back from Portugal and drank some sort of Portuguese wine everyday whilst on holidays and I love them! Having tried them very rarely before, I have a greater appreciation for the wines (let's not even talk about Port!) and will now try to get some locally as well.

[sjw_11]

I have one overall tip to anyone getting into wine for the first time: ignore anything anyone tells you is a RULE about wine, or not negotiable, or an absolute certainty... whether it be "merlot is no good", "only red wine is best", "no good wines come from outside France" etc people who talk in absolutes about wine (hmm actually this is a good rule in almost any topic) are almost invariable both wrong and more important boring people.

If you find you like a particular style, or wine, or whatever, dont let people sneer at you (and equally dont sneer at them if they like Sav Blanc just because you have decided you have a refined palate)

Best summed up by one of my all-time favourite Simpsons lines:
Homer: Marge, I'm sorry, but your cooking's only got two moves: Shake and Bake.
Marge: You like Shake n' Bake. You used to put it in your coffee.
Homer: People change, Marge. My palate has grown more sophisticated.
Marge: Oh yeah, what's a palate?
Homer: Oh ... it's a ... special time in a boy's life when ... got to go! [rushes out]

[bigtinnie]

Thanks for all the replies and tips.
I don't want to sound close-minded but I really haven't enjoyed white wine yet. I guess I should keep trying though.
I have tried the Chris Ringland (after quite a few recommendations) but it didn't do it for me. Perhaps I should concentrate on the Cabs seeing I enjoy them. I would really like to get onto some big Shiraz's though.

[Matt]

Brown Hill in MR make some good cabs for around $18 a bottle if you like the fuller bodied style...I would recommend them to try mate!

[Milan]

Thanks for all the replies and tips.
I don't want to sound close-minded but I really haven't enjoyed white wine yet. I guess I should keep trying though.
I have tried the Chris Ringland (after quite a few recommendations) but it didn't do it for me. Perhaps I should concentrate on the Cabs seeing I enjoy them. I would really like to get onto some big Shiraz's though.

Maybe a nice transition for you would be a dry rose like Verdet Vaucluse first...really nice French rose...think dried rose petals, good structure and a drying finish...or perhaps the Spinifex Rose (Aussie). Knocks the socks off most Bandols (another type of French rose, generally expensive).

After that, I suggest a nice dry Riesling for you. I think the Dandelion Vineyards Riesling would be right up your alley given the info you have provided. It's dry, refreshing, kaffir lime leaf in profile....really good value at $20.

[bigtinnie]

Thanks for all the replies and tips.
I don't want to sound close-minded but I really haven't enjoyed white wine yet. I guess I should keep trying though.
I have tried the Chris Ringland (after quite a few recommendations) but it didn't do it for me. Perhaps I should concentrate on the Cabs seeing I enjoy them. I would really like to get onto some big Shiraz's though.

Maybe a nice transition for you would be a dry rose like Verdet Vaucluse first...really nice French rose...think dried rose petals, good structure and a drying finish...or perhaps the Spinifex Rose (Aussie). Knocks the socks off most Bandols (another type of French rose, generally expensive).

After that, I suggest a nice dry Riesling for you. I think the Dandelion Vineyards Riesling would be right up your alley given the info you have provided. It's dry, refreshing, kaffir lime leaf in profile....really good value at $20.

I think that may be my issue. The whites I have tried I have not bought myself and they are generally too sweet for my liking. I'm pretty sure I have normally tried Sav Blanc.
I might be being a little general when saying I don't like white wine. Should probably say I don't like the whites I've tried. I'll have to give the dry ones a go - along with the Rose that has been suggested.
Thanks again for the responses.

[penguinoid]

Another French wine to try would be a Cahors. These are made from Malbec (called Côt there), and tend to be very big wines.

[rednut]

If you like the ballsy reds as do I try some of the Barossa's best.
Kalleske's Grenache, Greenock Creek Alices Shiraz, Turkey Flat Shiraz, Rockfords Basket Press and my favourite Cabernet Sauvignon is from Kaeslers in Nuriootpa.

[Dan]

Hi bigtinnie,

Not being funny here, but after reading through this thread it sounds like you should get yourself some vintage port (or vintage fortified Shiraz).

If you're after a full-bodied wine that is a spirits replacement then VP is probably worth a try, although keep in mind the alc content is much higher than table wine.

There are plenty around for $20ish and with a bit of age on them too.

Cheers
Dan

[Blesso]

Hey bigtinnie,
Definitely give the Langhorne Creek wines a go they are incredible value for money, lake breeze has some crackers for around $20. You can pick them up at dans...try the Bernoota or the straight cab, you wont be disappointed. If you want to spend a little more try Bremerton Walters Cab Sav (was previously reserve cab), outstanding wine.

[bigtinnie]

Thanks for the tips. I grabbed a couple of the Lake Breeze for this weekend. Will report back.

[Milan]

How did you get on with the previous wines tinnie?

Also, Bremerton Tamblyn is a cracker.

[bigtinnie]

How did you get on with the previous wines tinnie?

Also, Bremerton Tamblyn is a cracker.

Had a 2006 Mamre Brook Shiraz last weekend. Didn't venture into anything new.
It was very nice though.

[Michael McNally]

Had a 2006 Mamre Brook Shiraz last weekend. Didn't venture into anything new.
It was very nice though.

This is a pretty intense Barossa Shiraz and quite persistent. It is very nice.

Cheers

Michael

[rooman]

Start buying riesling!!.

The bug will bite eventually but the wines need 10 years to hit their peak so this addiction has a long lead time. Buy almost anything you can find from the 2012 vintage including Leo Buring ($15), Petaluma, Tim Adams ($16).

[daz]

Start buying riesling!!.

The bug will bite eventually but the wines need 10 years to hit their peak so this addiction has a long lead time. Buy almost anything you can find from the 2012 vintage including Leo Buring ($15), Petaluma, Tim Adams ($16).

There are a number of regions including WA, Tassie, Vic and Canberra that produce Rieslings to rival those you mention, some as competitive on price as well as being similarly worthy of cellaring. Personally, I prefer them young and fresh.

Cheers

daz

[bigtinnie]

Had the Lake Breeze Bernoota Shiraz Cab. Loved it. Thanks for the tip.
Also had a d'Arenburg The Footbolt Shiraz 2010. Really enjoyed it. I must buy some more for the future.
Can't imagine how good some of the renowned expensive wines are - these 'under $20' numbers are great.

[Milan]

Footbolt is good value. Give the Custodian Grenache a go too.

[bigtinnie]

I'm now totally lost.
Last night had a Penfolds St Henry 2008 as a follow up to a Lake Breeze Bernoota Cab Shiraz. The st Henry was nowhere near as good as the Lake Breeze and it's about 4 times the price. Also now just had a Penfolds Bin 407 Cab. Disappointing for a $60 bottle of wine. Much prefer my standard Salte Mamre Brook Cab.
Am I missing something?