The specific characteristics of each type of wine...

[timmspe]

What gives it away? How do you pick it in a blind tasting?

Personally, I have only put my finger on it with the one variety. In Cabernet Sauvignon, there is this unmistakeable aroma and flavour that is present in almost every glass. To me, it tastes like I am eating the stems and the leaves of the grapevine. Indeed, I think some people describe this as 'stemminess' or a 'green flavour.' I am pretty sensitive to it, and seem able to detect it when being only a small part of a blend. I find it quite off-putting, and it is tends to deter me from Cabernet (although I am still looking to explore Cabernet outside Barossa).

I am gradually narrowing it down with Mataro, Grenache and Shiraz. In Mataro, it's more of an appearance thing. Rather than having a seamless colour gradient from the middle to the edge of the glass, it looks like someone has poured in some purple ink, with the colour yet to evenly disperse throughout the glass. At the moment, the difference between Grenache and Shiraz is mainly to do with the intensity of the colour, the body, and the spectrum of red and dark fruit flavours, but nothing as specific as with Cabernet.

So, when drinking wine, is there a particular characteristic for each variety that you use to determine its identity?

[TiggerK]

You have to really careful with a query like that, it's one of the great questions.......

Yes there are particular characteristics for each variety, which is why we love wine (and playing wine options), but being too specific (i.e Pinot = cherry, or Merlot = Plums) is fraught with danger, there's just so much variety in each variety! BUt it's a good start when trying to guess something.

You say Mataro is an appearance thing, I say that you are basing that on how many Mataro's at how much bottle age? You may find it won't apply to a nice aged Bandol for example, or a Hewitson Old Garden. Either way, Mataro is another awesome grape! Yum.

Either way, (and I look forward to the following discussion), keep trying Cabernet!, it's right up there in my varietal preferences. And whenever you can, definitely try older examples from McLaren Vale, Coonawarra, Margaret River and of course some little place in south western France. I reckon good Cabernet is best enjoyed with at least 15-20 years of age. But pleasure can be had from younger ones as well, quite enjoyed Yalumba's The Cigar 2010 recently for example.

You'll find that steminess or green flavour in other varietals I suspect, it can be a whole bunch winemaking influence, underripe fruit, eucalypt notes etc. Pinot Noir is a fairly common place to find some of those characters too.

Sounds like you're enjoying your wine journey, and certainly taking it seriously. dingozegan will be very proud.

Cheers
Tim

[timmspe]

Haha. Thanks, Tim. I'll take it on the chin I am enjoying it though. It's hard not to get caught up in it when living here 08 would be the oldest Mataro. I have found a bit of greenness in other varieties (the eucalyptus in Black Sash comes to mind), but never to the same extent as Cabernet. The last time I remember noticing Cabernet as part of a blend was in the sparkling Shiraz at Burge Family Winemakers. But then again, I recall someone on the forum stating that Rick Burge likes to 'throw in leaves and twigs for prosperity,' or words to that effect, so I might have to hold back on big-noting myself for my tasting prowess on that one. I suppose having too much predictability in each variety would take some of the fun out of it. I look forward to testing it out in other regions! Cheers for the reply!

[Matt]

Sounds like you're enjoying your wine journey, and certainly taking it seriously. dingozegan will be very proud

If you want to see serious wine enthusiasts watch the documentary 'Somm'...These guys literally eat, sleep and breathe wine.

[dingozegan]

I find that the nose (and often the first impression) is the biggest give-away. Appearance and palate are more confirmations.

I guess we all find indicators that are relevant to specific grape varieties, regions, styles, etc. Eucalyptus on the nose almost always indicates Australia or California for me - its where eucalypts grow, and the aroma enters the fruit directly, so it tends to work well as a guide - unless, for example, you confuse eucalypt with menthol. Some indicators seem to work for a lot of people - like the herbaceous (methoxypyrazine) character that you mentioned for Cabernet Sauvignon - although that could mean Cabernet Sauvignon OR Cabernet Franc (or Sauvignon Blanc) because all those varieties have a decent amount of it (relatively speaking). But I find some of the most successful indicators (i.e., often guessing right) are quite specific to individual tasters.

No indicator is universal anyway, which makes it harder to correctly guess blind wines consistently. Even the most experienced tasters get it wrong, and often. Matt's right that the film Somm shows wine enthusiasts (who are professionally involved in wine) who are very serious about wine. (If you're not familiar with CMS, WSET, etc certifications then the film gives a decent portrayal of the process of attaining a wine appreciation-related qualification.) That documentary is another example of how even highly experienced, intensely focused tasters incorrectly guess blind wines.

Having said that, particular characteristics/indicators can get you a fair way to a correct guess so good luck in finding what works for you.

dingozegan will be very proud.

[sjw_11]

Personally, I tend to read the label

Seriously, and similar to what the others said, in a blind tasting I tend to look first to see if the character is really clear... does it scream varietal or could it be a blend? Blends are a lot tougher.

I look for any give away obvious characteristics.... E.g. does it have the clear, sappy cherry/strawberry and light colour indicating it may be Pinot? Does it have the confected red fruit/redskins lolly that suggest it may be Grenache? Does it have really clear blackcurrant with some cedar/cigar/green leafy notes indicating it may be cabernet or a Bdx blend? Or more left field, the sour cherry and black olive of Sangiovese? Or the rose petals and tannin of Barolo? In whites, the cats pee of Sav B, the distinctive french oak of a wooded Chardonnay, the nashi pear of a Pinot Grigio.

Those are the straight varietals I find easier (note, not EASY) to pick and the characters I use as short hand to try and pick them. That said, I could give you a beefy Aussie pinot or a robust old vine Grenache that would present totally different... and for a lot of SA cabernet (think McV and barossa) I really struggle to tell apart from Shiraz notwithstanding all the rules of looking for sweeter plummy fruit and less firm tannin to pick the shiraz (its all ripe, purple-fruit juice!).

So in short, I do look for certain characteristics, really based on my tasting memory of other wines, but a lot of the time it is still difficult to be sure and I gtee however good someone claims to be, you could find an option wine to beat them.

Case in point: Macau single bottle club, 2009. Ernie Loosen, doyen of the German wine trade is handed a white wine. Glorious, he says, I assure you this is a fine old German reisling. Answer? A 1979 Croation white wine of a local varietal.

[sjw_11]

Oh and if your very serious about your tasting focus on thinking about WHY the wine may be something (e.g. varietal flavours, tannin structure, mouth feel, colour/hue, what wine making influences such as oak, extraction can you taste etc) ... oh and avoid the great temptation to second guess what you think it is and then make your notes fit that assumption! (if you can... I always struggle )

[timmspe]

Very insightful. The chemistry behind a particular element in food and wine is pretty neat e.g. the green characteristics of methoxypyrazine (as I have just learned), and the kerosene attributed to TPN in riesling. On the point of some indicators being more specific to the individual, I am reminded of asparagus, where eating asparagus changes the aroma of urine in all people (that have recently eaten it ), but that only about 10% - 20% of the population are able to detect it (apparently to such an extent that it deters them from eating asparagus (I enjoy asparagus)). I digress. It's one thing to read or hear about what to expect from a particular variety, and it's helpful to a point, but being able to experience and conceptualise something on your own terms is in a league of its own. It can be a real 'light bulb moment.' Even having had the luxury of visiting some fifty cellar doors this year, I have only had a couple of these moments. The Mataro moment (i.e. identifying what it tends to look like ) came with the Gomersal Wines 2008 Mataro, and the Cabernet came with The Willows Vineyard 2009 Cabernet. Combining the effect of a number of individual components to arrive at a conclusion seems to be where I am at with most other varieties. But at the end of the day, knowing that the 'experts' can get it wrong, and recognising that variables in terroir, viticulture and vinification can culminate in any sort of varietal expression, which might be a world apart from what you might expect, keeps it interesting.

[timmspe]

And if anyone has a specific varietal indicator that they refer to, I'm still keen to hear it, described 'in your own terms', if only for interest's sake

[phillisc]

Tinned green peas and yes a bit of the asparagus in early Rouge Homme Clarets and Cabernet. (78-86 vintages)
Have not smelt this so distinctly in any other wine to date

Cheers
Craig.

[Mahmoud Ali]

When a wine ages many of the distinctive characteristics gets subsumed within the tertiary, aged profile and makes it more difficult to identify. I cannot tell you the number of times my friends, who love Bordeaux, will identify a classy old wine as Bordeaux. It was Harry Waugh, an Englishman in the wine trade who, when asked about whether he had ever confused a claret (Bordeaux) with a Burgundy, famously said "Not since lunch."

He is also supposed to have said, and this would please the Red Bigot, that the first duty of a wine is to be red.

Cheers.............Mahmoud.

[Polymer]

IMO, it is easier to concentrate on identifying things that are relatively objective..

Acid
Tannin
Oak
Alcohol
Residual Sugar

There are more but as far as basic structure of a wine...pretty good place to start..

[DJ]

Reds are much harder than unoaked whites. It is often the region and the wine making (especially oak) which have the greatest impact.

Sometimes with Cab Sav you can detect a whole in the middle of the palette and Shiraz (& merlot etc) is more to the middle. This is one of the reasons winemakers blend, even small undeclared amounts, to get better balance.

Years ago I ran a few introduction to wine tastings over a few weeks - week one would be whites. Everyone could see the differences between Riesling, Sauv Blanc, Chardonnay, etc, especially when chosen to highlight the differences. The next week looking a reds, the confidence of the first week would be shattered because it was so much harder.

I don't know what descriptors I would use these days - many books have varietal descriptors. I suspect too as the alcohol levels have crept up over the last 20 years it has got even harder to tell the difference in some wines just based on descriptors.

[Glen]

Hi All

It's certainly been a while since I was here and posting last. Many new names and few old timers still hanging in there, good to see.

This topic peeked my interest as it has been a topic dear to my heart for nearly 15 years now, and it probably seems immodest but I will point you to my publication called the Essential Wine Tasting Guide, which is a varietal based tasting cheat sheet. The good news is that it has just been updated for the first time in a few years and has some great new info on it. Please see my signature for the website address.

I must also talk to Gavin about relisting the Le Nez du Vin wine aroma sets

Cheers

[Gavin Trott]

Hi All

It's certainly been a while since I was here and posting last. Many new names and few old timers still hanging in there, good to see.

This topic peeked my interest as it has been a topic dear to my heart for nearly 15 years now, and it probably seems immodest but I will point you to my publication called the Essential Wine Tasting Guide, which is a varietal based tasting cheat sheet. The good news is that it has just been updated for the first time in a few years and has some great new info on it. Please see my signature for the website address.

I must also talk to Gavin about relisting the Le Nez du Vin wine aroma sets

Cheers

Glen who?

Now, I used to know a Glen, I'm sure I did!

Where did he go?

.