Torbreck

[marsalla]

If you had a choice between selling fruit to a billionaire and selling fruit to someone who has a history of struggling with finances who would you sell to? They will sell to whoever pays the most and is most likely to pay on time. They would be mugs if they didnt, ( and I doubt they are mugs)

[George Krashos]

Torbreck always paid their growers a significant premium for their grapes. That's how he got the grapes in the first place. They'll stay where the money is - and that doesn't look like Powell.

[sjw_11]

Thanks guys for crushing my vague optimism about humanity!! Ill return to my usual bitterness and cycnicism...

[marsalla]

Thanks guys for crushing my vague optimism about humanity!! Ill return to my usual bitterness and cycnicism...

Economics isnt a humanities course

[calm]

If you had a choice between selling fruit to a billionaire and selling fruit to someone who has a history of struggling with finances who would you sell to? They will sell to whoever pays the most and is most likely to pay on time. They would be mugs if they didnt, ( and I doubt they are mugs)

Yep, they have cache and bills to pay.

[crusty2]

Always two sides to a story.
Link to the other side http://wbmonline.com.au/news/mr-kight-speaks/

the quotes

....Torbreck has grown beyond one personality, but that’s a hard thing for a founder to recognise. Torbreck stands on its own as one of the world’s icon wines, and I believe it is important to continue improving on the brand. The self promotion can get out of balance, and drain both resources ....

and

I can’t tell you how many times my wife looked at me like I was crazy because I’d agreed to help Dave out of some fix he’d gotten himself into....

put some perspective from the other side.

I don't necessarily agree with what happened but, to be fair, but business is business.

Cheers
Phill

[sjw_11]

Thanks guys for crushing my vague optimism about humanity!! Ill return to my usual bitterness and cycnicism...

Economics isnt a humanities course

Actually, if I was the grower I WOULD offer to sell to Powell, thus forcing a bidding war between the two to push the price of the fruit even higher...

[Panda 9D]

I strongly disagree with the 'but business is business' attitude. The way you do business isn't separate from who you are.. if you're an asshole in business you're just an asshole all-round. Money isn't the only thing the growers should be considering. Besides, spite and the will to keep top fruit away from people you hate is a strong motivator to pay well and on time.

[tpang]

It's disgusting to read what's happened to Dave. Sure, he's running high on emotions right now, but can you blame him? This was a business he started and was working on leaving something for his sons. He thought he was offered help at a time when he was mentally stressed, and unfortunately the situation is that good-will was almost too good to be true.

Reading the other interview "To Dave’s credit, Torbreck’s market recognition around the world is much bigger than just Dave." Well excuse me, but to me, Torbreck has always been Dave Powell. Torbreck's market recognition is built upon Dave's presence at the frontlines promoting the wines. It will be interesting to see how sales of Torbreck go in future. I wonder how Lisa Perotti-Brown will rate the 2009 Laird, knowing Dave's opinion of VA issues.

I hope Dave manages to work things through for himself, and finds opportunities to continue in winemaking. It will be a great loss to the industry if a character like him exits. I'm certainly not buying anymore Torbreck wines from now on. I'll definitely support any future endavours of Dave's.

[odyssey]

I totally agree with the sentiment and was shocked by the treatment he got, but sadly and realistically with globally exported wines the vast majority of the mass-public identify with the brand, not the winemaker (if they even know who the winemaker is).

Even moreso when considering brand-driven markets such as China or the US.

I would be hard pressed to find a (non-forumite/non-wine-geek) casual wine drinking friend or family member who could name even one currently active winemaker.

[alexc92]

Another article:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/ ... 6718743069

[dan_smee]

It's a sad story, and I won't be buying any new release Torbreck wines from now on. There are too many reputable small producers that can have my money. That was inhumane, and just plain dirty of Kight.

That said, he is right in saying it is all his fault for signing a contract against his lawyer's advice, and against all common sense. It appears that Dave has very little in the way of money management skills, and he probably shouldn't be looking after a business with such big turnovers and so many employees that count on him.

So, while it is brutal, mean, unfair, unforgiving, dishonest and just plain dirty - Kight did nothing illegal, and Powell made the rod for his own back by jumping into bed with this guy. Billionaires get their money because they are good at this.

[dan_smee]

Also didn't mention - the argument he is making is based entirely on the emotional story. I don't know who this supposed lawyer is, but issuing a letter admitting fault, and then proceeding with legal action? Like I sad, it is sad. But that is all it is.

[qwertt]

I have no personal interest in either side and do not have a view on his wines (other than thinking them a try-on for price) but after reading both sides of the argument, I think there may a bit more going for Mr Kight. I don't know Mr Powell or anything of him, but I have known too many people who live life editing out the information that they don't like and developing justifications for what is objectively outrageous behaviour.You see politicians doing it all the time arguing they are a special case.

It seems to me that if you have to blow $92,000 at a strip club in Denmark or anywhere else in order to get a wine sale contract the wine itself is not worth the money. Given the comments on various forums about how closely Dave Powell is associated with the Torbreck name, it seems to me it would take a lot of provocation to cut him loose and try to go it alone - at least in a business sense. I suspect the value of Mr Powell to the brand was weighed very heavily against the cost of him to the business.

Mr Kight may well fit the image of the bastard businessman in the way he has been presented - but then if he is that wealthy I suspect he would not go to all this trouble just to screw Dave Powell, given the cost to his name and his reputation. I am not a businessman myself, but I've spent time in HR and have been constantly amazed at the extent to which some people can create a victim narrative which conveniently excludes any adverse behaviour of their own that contributed or caused the action complained about.

These are random thoughts based on what I have read. They may be far from the truth but I thought it would be worth recording them as someone who has no particular axe to grind.

[burgster]

What an intelligent post qwertt. Certainly more balanced than some of the emotive ones above it.

I have to admit I have certainly heard of Torbreck, but know nothing of this Powell chap. Because their top wines are priced so far outside my range I haven't bothered with them much to be honest.

What amazes me is how a winery can be so "successful" and sell wine for such high prices and yet he has no money. There must be something badly wrong with the business model somewhere.

I can't imagine the current owner would go out of his way to create this bad publicity without good reason. And as he says he didn't buy the winery off Powell anyhow. Sounds like he basically inherited him with the winery and tried to make it work.

[Chuck]

My son goes to school with one of David's both doing year 12. Apparently he was going to university next year to do accounting and eventually be the Torbreck accountant. All a bit sad but after reading both sides of the story I think there are 2 sides to the argument. But the problems for David IMO were the the dire state of the OZ wine industry weighed down by a huge glut, the high AUD, some lack of cost control and changing tastes. Add the GFC and it was a recipe for a train crash. In another era I think he would have succeeded in his dream.

I hope David can pick himself up and get going again. He owes it to his sons.

Carl

[n4sir]

Lots of strange and conflicting claims surrounding this story - in the end will there be any winners?

My biggest concern is for the grape growers who may end up the innocent casualties of this war, particularly the ones on Dave Powell's handshake deals and big bucks for their fruit.

Cheers,
Ian

[LGW]

Just received the latest newsletter, FWIW a quick scan and no mention Dave's of departure.

[Mahmoud Ali]

I was at a tasting last night and quite enjoyed the 2011 Woodcutter's Shiraz, it was somewhat nicer than the 2011 Juveniles. I asked the agent pouring the wines about the Dave Powell/Torbreck thing and he said to me that Dave hasn't been making the wines since about 2002. He would know a thing or two about it as Dave Powell stayed at his place when he visited Edmonton for a tasting event a few years back.

They sold $34,000 at the tasting.

Mahmoud.