The penny has dropped...

[timnit]

I am a 28 year old guy who 6-7 years ago could not stand the taste of red wine...

Move forward to 3 years ago, a trip to Margaret River later, and I started to dabble - enjoying more and more with a desire to learn and explore..

Back then I decided to buy a few mixed wines, varying prices from $9 through to $25, put them in the rack and forget about them.

Over the weekend, aided by my new Rabbit Decanter that was a wedding present, I cracked one of the cheaper wines I bought - a 2008 Moondah Brook Cabernet Sauvignon.. It wastnt expensive (maybe $10) and it hasnt been treated wonderfully well - put in a wine rack, in a house which flucuates in temp a fair bit..

I opened it, decantered and started to drink..

I remember how it tasted 3 years ago - I was shocked with how it tasted now!

Its fair to say the penny has dropped and I have fallen in love with wine and the cellaring process.

The challenge to identify a bargain with potential and enjoy it immensly in 3, 5 or 10 years time.

My challenge is capital! As im sure it is for everyone!

How should I store my wine to give it the best chance - the leader of the opposition isnt going to sign off a fridge just yet so I need to make do with what I can.

Any other tips for a young person starting out - I will probably buy 2-3 bottles a month as that is all the budget allows - just married and new home owner means $50 is my monthly budget for at least another year to indulge in this hobby.

Your advice is appreciated

[AndrewCowley]

Don't cellar for the moment. Buy some 'drink now' wines from different regions and work out which ones you like. Then buy cellar-worthy wines from those regions. Otherwise you may make the error of cellaring a weird collection of stuff you don't even like.

[mjs]

timnit,

Welcome to the wonderful world of having an interest in wine. Some might call it a disease, an obsession, pastime, emptier of bank accounts, source of continual enjoyment, a great thing to share with friends .... and more. It all happened to me about 40 years ago!! And I'm still doing it.

I agree with Andrew. if you are on a tight budget, then you are not going to accumulate a lot of stock. Try a variety of wines that might be in the style that you like, but dont be afraid to diversify. Try differnet areas and varieties. Keep some notes. (I hope the 2-3 bottles is the allowance for putting away and not just for drinking!!). If you do like something, them maybe put a bottle of two away for a year or so. There's plenty of stuff in the $15-$20+ range which is pretty good value and worth looking at over a couple of years or more.

If you have a modest number of bottles, then maybe the best thing to do is to find some styrene boxes in which to store the bottles in some quiet place in the house. Over say a 2-3 year window, its probably just necessary to keep the temparature reasonable with not too much variation each day, so some insualtion will help. With more stock and longer periods, then a more controlled environment would be the best (cellar of some form or wine fridge).

Read as much as you can, check in on this forum, (and others), keep on the look-out for in-store tastings, go to cellar doors, don't be intimidated, there are no rules as such. Above all, enjoy.

[Michael McNally]

Hi Timnit

Good advice here. If you can only put away 2-3 bottle per month then make sure you do a couple of 'safe' wines (wines that you like now and that have a good track record) and the odd 'risk' wine (a pinot noir if you don't drink much pinot, or a wine from a different region or made in a different style to your comfort zone). Your palate will change as your appreciation of wine changes and those oddities that you set aside will be revelations down the track. I wish I had started cellaring mor Grenache and Grenache blends when I started out.......

Also, a great way to see track record is to watch the reviews on this site. Wines that I am glad I have bought on seeing them consistently deliver to members of this forum have been:
Marius
Head Wines
Majella
Noon
Wild Duck Creek
Wynns BL
Wine By Brad

And welcome to the Forum

Cheers

Michael

[timnit]

Hey all - thanks for all the comments

With regards to "Drink Now" wines.. I have about 80 bottles of 2002 - 2010 wines that is now ready to drink.. I have been buying wines over the last 3 years but havnt been consuming a whole lot - been off the grog in an attempt to drop kgs! It worked and now I work out enough to be able to enjoy it again!

What I now want to do is backfill the wine as I drink it so as I have 2-3 bottles a month I am replacing it with current vintages that will age and be ready to drink at the 5 year mark... does that make sense?

I also have a fair few Penfolds 28, 128, 389 and 407's - christmas gifts at work.. Varying from 2002 to 2010 which I really dont know what to do with just yet..

[Craig(NZ)]

A few quick hints

1. Cellar wines designed to cellar. You might not have ideal conditions it just means you dont keep em for quite as long. No big deal. I have quite a few in my wardrobe (given I am in Auckland) and have had no problems with robust reds. I think reds like pinot/ champagne etc fair a lot better in proper storage. Cabernet and Shiraz not so much of a difference

2. Remember there are other countries around. Grab a few bordeaux wines, a couple of kiwis, Italian etc

3. Dont just cellar what you like now. I cannot underline enough you palate WILL change and then it may change again even back to what you started off liking!

Personally id look to put away a few longer term robust wines every month with the intention of not touching them for 2-5 years. Some wynns black label, penfolds bin 28 if you can find some at a price that isn't their stupid rrp's, a few clare rieslings from good makers, a couple of good semillons, a couple of good cheaper bordeauxs, maybe some italian primitivo, good NZ Syrah, good Barossa Shiraz or whatever

In 2 years time you will have the makings of a cellar

4. Be patient and pick vintages. If its say a crap vintage for something in some region just wait. Be happy to skip vintages instead of having to have everything now. You may even like to look at auction if you want to back fill a bit and buy a few cheaper classics

5. Enjoy and relax. The word has enough wine snobs

6. Go for classics over cults. What has been proven long term over what is trendy at the moment. Sure we all have a sprinkling of wines of the moment in our cellar but make the backbone classic labels. They are classics for a reason

[rens]

Some very good suggestions above.
I'd also suggest going to as many wine events as you can. The chain stores have weekly tastings and are a good place to start. You can sample alot of stuff for nothing and only buy the stuff you like.
Also make yourself known at your local wine shops and have a good relationship with the staff. It is amazing how many wines they keep out the back for special customers. It even gets to the point where they will let you know when things are on special or if they are about to come on special or even hold back wines that are in very limited supply. You can also build up relationships with wineries, but this is probably better for when you have a bit more cash to spend as most winery orders are done by the case.
Also I would suggest purchasing more than one bottle of a certain wine so you can sample them over time (one every two years) to see how they change. This is a great way to learn at what point in a wine's life it is right for your tastes. Don't buy dozens unless the offer is outraguiously good-three or four is a nice number.
Keep an eye on these boards for 'offlines' in your local area (basically people from here get together at an eatery with a bottle each of byo). Most states have them and they are a great way to meet likeminded people and try some good wines and they are largely relaxed without any wine snobbery. It is amazing what you learn by tasting wines with others.
So welcome and I hope you enjoy being part of the Auswine community.

[bacchaebabe]

For buying right now, look at 2012 Clare rieslings and 2010 South Australian reds. You won't make too many mistakes with those. There's quite a few excellent rieslings under $15 and they are definitely worth cellaring. And if the budget stretches, 02 vintage champange. Lanson can be found for around $50 at times, which is a total bargain but most others are closer to $80 - $100 and upwards from there. But you probably won't regret it when you are celebrating your anniversary or child's birth. There's some solid cheaper cabernets coming out of Margaret River these days too. Under $20 even. Vintages 07, 08, 09 and 10 all good.

[Mike Hawkins]

I know this post is primarily in reference to red wines, but I think given your budget, you should seriously think about 2012 Eden and Clare valley rieslings - a truly great vintage (as Kris points out). Bottles like Pewsey Vale at $16 each are going to be superb with time. And good riesling is really fun to drink (and observe the changes) at all stages of its life.

That said, when I was in your situation 20+ years ago, I took the approach that whatever I bought (normally 6 packs of relatively inexpensive reds), I wasn't allowed to drink more than 1 bottle every 2 years. That approach meant I went thirsty at first, and I didn't get to drink much older stuff (except at commercial tastings) but today, I'm still drinking some of my earliest purchases such as 1986 St Henri.

To quote Penfolds .... the rewards of patience....

[dave vino]

Tahbilk Shiraz and Cab Savs age wonderfully and at $20ish a bottle are a bargain. You can usually get back vintages with a bit of age on them for a bit more.
Wynns Coonawarra
Clonakilla Hilltops Shiraz
Mount Langi Clifftop Shiraz
Mike Press Wines (massive bargains)
Paringa Estate Penisula Pinot Noir
Collector Wines Marked Tree Red

Are you in Sydney?

[Hacker]

Campbell Mattinson published this gem many years ago and it contains some great advice:


I’ve changed again. I’ve been buying wine to cellar for more than ten years and recently I’ve changed what I want to have in my cellar. It’s not the first time I’ve changed – my cellar has gone through a number of ‘eras’, most of which have ended up costing a lot more cash than they should have. When it comes to cellaring wine, errors in buying strategy are usually costly.
Then again, nothing quite burns money like a fool – and when I started cellaring wine I was definitely foolish. I rushed in and bought up as much wine as I could afford, hoovering up the information in the various wine buying books and then storing the purchases in cool, dark conditions. Despite all the research in many ways my wine buying was out of control, I knew what I was buying, but not what I was doing – I didn’t have a plan. The end result: not only a lot of wasted money, but a lot of wines either gloomily consumed or flogged off at auction at half the price I’d paid for them.
It could have been different – and should have been. Instead of wildly chasing the next great deal, or coveting the next monster red, I should have been thinking further ahead, and thinking of the following:
1. Cellaring does not make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
If a wine is of average quality, or seems wildly unbalanced (for instance, more oak flavour than fruit flavour; too much tannin; too much acid etc) to start with, then the chances are that it’ll still be average (at best), or will remain unbalanced, given ten years in the cellar. If you are cellaring wines to drink, rather than to collect or treat as an ‘investment’, then this should be your number one concern. Almost everyone who starts putting wines away to cellar starts with wines that aren’t quite up to the job – I know that I did – many a cellarer has found themselves five years into the task, only to find that almost all of the wines they bought in the first two years has actually declined in quality. This leads us to the next vital point.
2. The crucial first two years
The hardest thing about starting a cellar is the first two or three years. Almost everyone gets these first years wrong. The main problem is: almost everyone tends to buy wines along far too limited lines. The limitations are usually one of: too much of the same style of wine; too much of a single region or producer; or (even more commonly) too much wine bound to mature around the same time (having several hundred bottles all mature at the same time can be a rather sick feeling). This is the hardest point to swallow, but a most important point: it is essential that you cellar wines from a wide variety of styles, price points, regions and likely maturity dates. If you don’t, you’ll get three years down the track and realize that you’re either going to have to start drinking fast, or start over again.
3. Keep your cellar exciting!
It’s natural that your cellar will hold a core of wines that basically fall into the category of your “favourite wine style”. Everyone does this – and it’s the right thing to do. Once you’ve been cellaring for a few years though, and you’ve become accustomed to pulling out mature wines on a regular basis, you’ll probably find that you have an increasing desire to draw on wine “oddities” – wines that will cellar well, but don’t necessarily fit into your normal drinking habits. Most times, when you venture into your cellar, you know exactly what kind of wine you are after. But there are times when you want to be surprised … when you want something different. A selection of oddities keeps your cellar exciting.
4. The international cellar
It is essential that, as early as possible, you include in your cellar wines from countries other than those belonging to your core “favourite wine style”. This was a mistake I made – for too long my cellar contained wines only from Australia and New Zealand. There comes a time in most wine lover’s lives when they want to know what else there is in the wine world – it’s part of the in-built joy and fascination of wine. Pop some Chianti Classico, Barbaresco, Chablis or whatever Bordeaux you can afford into your cellar – it doesn’t have to be hugely expensive, or be in vast quantity, but you do need at least something “old world”. (I cannot emphasise this enough).
5. Why are you cellaring wine?
Are you a collector or a drinker or someone hoping to make money out of cellaring wine? It makes a huge difference in terms of what you buy to cellar – just about everyone thinks, when they first start buying wines to cellar, that they’re buying wines to drink, but it doesn’t always turn out that way. Cellaring wine can be a kind of self exploration. Most cellarers realize over the years that they buy some wines just because they like having them in their cellar – they like owning them, or they like supporting a winemaker they’ve become loyal to, as much or more than drinking them. It’s possible to have a cellar that’s mostly for drinking but partly simply to satisfy the ‘collector’ gene in you – a lot of wine cellaring is about satisfying our desire to be hunters and gatherers – whatever the case, it can be a huge help in working out your buying decisions if you be honest with yourself from the start: are you a drinker, or a collector, or an ‘investor’, or all three?
6. Do you like aged wine?
I have to put my hand up and admit that I was a fair way into cellaring before I had a proper handle on the taste of aged wine – I knew that I liked the idea of aged wine, but I probably couldn’t have said for certain that I liked the taste. This would be especially true of aged white wine. I suspect that I’m not alone – there’s just something seductive about storing wines for the future (in my own case I suspect it was a kind of nesting). The wisest thing to do though, if you’re about to start a cellar, is to firstly buy a variety of aged wines across a variety of maturity levels (say, 15 year old, 10 year old, five year old and three year old wines) and see if you like the taste of aged wine. In many ways, the taste of aged wine is a different taste more than it is a better taste – it’s possible that you won’t like it. Find out from the start (though give yourself a number of bottles before settling on a conclusion: aged wine can be an acquired taste). Buying through wine auction houses is the best way to do this.
7. The real price of the wine you’re cellaring
This might seem like heresy, but it can be a good idea to develop a basic knowledge of wine auction prices – even if you never intend to buy or sell any wine at auction. Over time, some wines will be worth more than you paid for them, and some wines will be worth considerably less. The whole idea of setting up a cellar is that you stock it with wines that you want to drink, and if this remains the case, then wine auction prices are irrelevant to you. Most people though find that their tastes change over time. A wine’s potential auction price should not influence your buying decisions in the first place – but a half-eye on auction prices keeps you switched on to the real price of the wine you are buying.
As an aside, it would be fair to say that had more investors in the failed Heritage Fine Wines and Wineorb businesses taken this advice their exposure to the collapse would have been considerably less – despite popular belief, and popular exceptions, most wine does not go up in price over time, and if it does, it’s usually not by much.
8. Balance Balance Balance
The best wines are blessed with impeccable balance – and so are the best cellars. A cellar chocka-block full of wines that Robert Parker has given 100 points might be impressive, but it would be a nightmare to drink – if that was all your collection contained. You need (figuratively) light and shade in your collection. You need wine for freezing nights and wine for hot summer days. You need wine for yourself, and wine for friends and lovers. You need wine to cope with the seasons and the nuances of your social circles. A great bottle of wine is usually somehow lesser if consumed alone – so consider who and what you’ll be sharing it with. The more you think of this, the more variety you’ll probably need in your collection.
9. Consider pinot noir
When I first started cellaring wine I didn’t like pinot noir at all – I thought it was thin and weak – but after perhaps three years, it had become my favourite variety. This isn’t an unusual change in tastes – many wine drinkers, when they start getting serious about it all, find themselves firstly seeking wines that are more and more concentrated, followed by a gradual trend towards wines with more and more finesse (noting that finesse and concentration are not necessarily mutually exclusive). The problem I faced when “the change” came was that mature pinot was what I most wanted to drink – especially with certain kinds of foods – and yet I hadn’t put any pinot noir in my cellar. I dearly wish I had. And I dearly do advise: pop a few good-quality, ageworthy, pinot noirs into your cellar, even if you’re not sure that you’ll ever like the variety. I wish someone had told me this!
10. You’re the one drinking it …
Let me reveal something of myself: when I first started to get a decent cellar together, there were times when I’d scan the bottles I had and imagine what someone would think if they were looking over my shoulder – I guess I wanted them to be impressed. I wouldn’t have admitted it to myself, but I was trying to build the perfect cellar (within my financial means) to show to someone. This was the root of dozens of buying mistakes. Wine is meant to be a conveyor of joy – and my cellar brought me a whole lot more joy when I stopped this nonsense and concentrated only on wines that I, personally, was really interested in drinking and sharing. The perfect cellar is very often – indeed, perhaps always – an idiosyncratic one. A cellar’s contents should mean the most to the person or the family it belongs to. A person’s cellar is not a public library; it’s an investment in the quality of your own life.

Conclusion
When I was first buying wines to cellar I bought too many wines of the same style, and too many wines that were medium-term agers. I leant towards quantity rather than quality. Everything in life is a reaction to what has immediately come before – when I noticed my mistake, I then swung far the other way, buying a host of long term wines of high quality (and price). I corrected this by adding diversity to my collection, and gradually drank my way through the cheaper wines in my cellar.
There came a time then when my collection was probably half the size of what it had once been – but it was mostly much higher quality stuff. Indeed, where once I could have told you exactly how many bottles I had (because it both mattered to me, and amazed me) for some years now I’ve had no idea at all as to how many bottles I have. I do know, though, what I’m looking forward to drinking!
What’s changed in me recently is that I’ve rediscovered the joy of a good, ten year old, mid-priced Aussie cabernet – and so I’ve been buying the odd small batch. I’m amazed at how well priced they usually are – not much more than I would have expected to pay on their release it often seems. I admit to feeling pretty good about myself when I make these purchases: mostly because I know that I’m buying these wines for me, and my lifestyle, and also because I know that I actually need these wines – I buy them and drink them within a couple of months of purchase. This makes me feel good because I know that I have bought a lot of wines in the past that I didn’t really need – I just couldn’t stop myself from buying. Control isn’t boring; it’s satisfying.
Then again, after years of trying and failing, I also found a bottle of Wendouree that I really, really liked – and I don’t have any Wendouree in my cellar. A good cellar never dies; it must always be tinkered and tailored.

[mjs]

the joy of good, ten year old mid-priced cabernet ... that pushes my buttons