Help Me Cure My Secret Wine Shame!

[dan_smee]

Hi All,

New to the forum, and wanted to say how great it was that a place like this exists! Good work to all involved.

I was seeking some advice - I have been trying to further my wine education by branching out into more exotic varietals (well, exotic for someone who grew up only drinking Shiraz, Semillon and Pinot Noir). I have developed an appreciation for Tempranillo, Nero D'Avola, wines from Chile, South Africa, but I have a secret wine shame - I just can't get into Chardonnay.

I have tried a variety of Australian examples, and the only one I could actually finish a glass of was a Tyrrell's Vat 47 2010 I picked up at the cellar door. I worry that I am prejudiced by the entirely unsubtle over-oaked, buttery, round Chardonnays, and the Vat 47 was a far more elegant example.

So I guess what I am asking is whether anyone has a recommendation for a Chardonnay that is in the more elegant mould. I'm yet to venture into Burgundy - is this the key to unlocking Chardonnay for the uninitiated and stubborn? Are there any Australian labels that approximate the wines of Chablis?

[PaulG]

Welcome to the forum! It's great to have you on board.

I'm not a white drinker, but the one chardonnay that I can quite happily drink is Yalumba's FDW7c. I'd give that a crack! But if you don't like a particular varietal, don't stress too much. There are so many that you aren't likely to lack for choice even if you eliminate one entirely!

[dave vino]

Gav has some examples on his site Giant Steps, Hoddles Creek.

Or if you can get some Shaw and Smith M3 which is always an elegant one.

[griff]

Epis Chardonnay has been the closest to Chablis that I have tried.

[TiggerK]

Welcome aboard Dan,

we all have certain styles or varietals that just don't do it for us. Mine is Sauvignon Blanc Yours seems to be chardonnay (at the moment, tastes do change!). I wonder though, how many top examples have you tried? As a Shiraz drinker, you're obviously not against oak per se, and yet the oaky 'traditional' malo styles of chard are not doing it for you. Is it the butter? Is it the creamy vanilla oak? Easy to say it's a combo of those I suppose, but what don't you like about the ones you've tried so far?

Top end 'young' Aussie chardonnay is such a mixed bag nowdays. If you had an unlimited budget, from stuff I've enjoyed, I'd suggest trying the Bannockburn SRH 2006, a particularly well balanced wine and should be not too hard to find. Also top examples like Giaconda 08, Leeuwin Art Series 2005, Oakridge 842, Shaw and Smith M3 2008 and Cullen Kevin John 2007 are all great wines and should be given a fair run before dismissing the entire aussie chardy genre!!

Don't forget the kiwi's either, try Kumeu River Mate's, Pyramid Valley Lions Tooth or Field of Fire, John Forrest Collection and some vintages of Cloudy Bay Chard (e.g 07) are also nicely balanced.

Personally I find that some years will show a lot more buttery oak than others, and age helps a lot! Until you've tried a wonderful aged example of Aussie Chardonnay, it's easy to say they're all flabby oaky beasts. (and even the big style can be appreciated). Penfolds Yattarna 2000 and Giaconda 2001 both come to mind immediately as great older examples!

Not much in the Chablis style that I know of here though, i.e little or no oak at all. Unoaked Chardonnay anyone?? No thanks, stick with Chablis for that!

Cheers!
Tim

P.S Must also say that the best Chardonnay I ever had was a 1999 Burgundy a year or two ago (thanks mark as), but white burg is a nightmare lottery on so many levels.

[camw]

Must also say that the best Chardonnay I ever had was a 1999 Burgundy

What was it?

[TiggerK]

You were there Cam! Ad Lib, Oct 2010, was a Rapet Pere et Fils Corton-Charlemagne Grand Cru 1999. You bought the Giaconda Ergo Sum Shiraz which was also a good wine.

Yes, I know, DRC Montrachet 2008...... Stop tormenting me!

[dan_smee]

Wow, thanks for all the responses!

The reason it is so perplexing to me is that the combinations should work - I like Shiraz, Cabernet etc so oak is ok - I love aged Semillon, so the buttered toast characters aren't too dissimilar to the buttery Chardonnay's...

I will try a few of these and get back to you all.

[odyssey]

G'day Dan.

I have seen many criticisms about Australian attempts at Chablis and the general view is that if you truly like Chablis style then your best bet is to try drinking Chablis.

Plenty of reasonably priced examples that are imported into Australia. eg:

Domaine William Fevre Chablis
Nathalie & Gilles Fèvre
Domaine Vauroux
Domaine Pattes Loup
Nathalie Oudin
Christophe et Fils

Since Gavin doesn't sell Chablis I don't think he will mind if I suggest that you start by looking up Nev's website (Eurocentric) and of course google.

[Thommo]

Hard to go past (at the ~$30/bottle mark) DeBortoli's estate chard, Shaw and Smith's M3, Kooyong Clonale or even Leeuwin Estate Prelude for something a bit more full-bodied. A good food match doesn't hurt in chardonnay appreciation either, roast chook, a good creamy brie.... mmmm

Failing that, you could check out pretty much any blanc de blanc bubbles for something that is the antithesis of what old-school aussie chardonnay is supposed to taste like.

[sjw_11]

Kooyong Clonale, Leuwin Estate Prelude, Shaw & Smith M3 = +1
Also recommend Hungerford Hill Tumbarumba Chardonnay - in fact if your looking for more chabli-esque styles try something our of Orange or Tumbarumba (cooler climate)... Philip Shaw in orange would be another in this vein, their Chardonnay is very nice also (the more expensive one)...

[markg]

I don't like many of the Australian Chardonnay out there but have a personal list that I would highly recommend trying and experimenting with:

In order of preference
Pierro
Leeuwin Estate
Penfolds high end chardy
Giaconda
Cullen
Voyager estate

[camw]

You were there Cam! Ad Lib, Oct 2010, was a Rapet Pere et Fils Corton-Charlemagne Grand Cru 1999.

Oh cool. Yeah I remember that night now. Corton Charlemagne can be so good, two of my top 3 dry white wines have been from there.

[via collins]

I've been there.

I thought i didn't like chardonnay, no-one I knew seemed to, and to be fair, there was not a lot of good chardonnay opportunities.

As the years have rolled by, I've really come to appreciate the grape in all its forms and styles, and this year has been a bobby dazzler. Highlights have included:

- Hoddles Creek - very rarely a dud. Enjoyed an 05 with mushroom risotto on Friday, great match.
- pretty well anything out of Beechworth, but Giaconda, Pennyweight, Smith's - all sun-kissed and fragrant.
- hard to get a dud out of the Yarra Valley - the range of Giant Steps is something to behold, the Mandala is okay, the HC as above
- A 2nd or 3rd to Shaw and Smith from Adelaide Hills.
- the biggest treat of all has been trying the top tiers from Margaret River - Leeuwin Estate 01, 08 and 09 are all unique, and all a great journey, but for complete pleasure, it was the Cullen Kevin John, the year escapes me now.

Don't be afraid, grab a couple of bottles, get the requisite food match together, let the wine reach optimal temperature, and jump into another kind of heaven.

[Michael R]

Welcome Dan, great post, such a divisive grape....

Little to add on the above, except echo the nz tip, typically they Show a leaner more mineral driven style, which served reasonably chilled can soften the hardest anti-chard heart. Felton road a good example. Plenty of quality at all price points, however it falls way behind Riesling in the QPR stakes.
Fwiw, my wife's not a chardy fan, and one she likes is Sorrenberg, also from beechworth.

Once you and Chardonnay find each other (and you will ) unfortunately the financial implications can be severe, however the rewards are unforgettable. Once you get on board you'll be posting Jura tasting notes before you know it! Fortunately Australia has enough quality to keep you safe from the French clutches for a while.

Cheers
Michael

[Sean]

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[milky]

+1 from me for Voyager Chardonnay - I've not been a great Chardy fan, but I really like the Voyager Chard, just great fruit with nice subtle oak.

If you don't mind spending more to find that elusive chardy you'd like, try: Leeuwin Estate Art Series, Oakridge 864, Penfolds Bin 08A and/or 09A

Personally, I'm starting to like chardonnays more and more now. Chablis (the better ones) are nice, and Mersault (also, the better ones) is just beautiful.

[bacchaebabe]

Yep, I'll throw my two cents in for the Voyager Estate Chardy. All the recent vintages have been very good so it's a safe bet. If you don't like it, my advice is give up. At least for a few years.

[griff]

A chablis style has pretty wide parameters these days. But if you mean a chardonnay in a leaner, not overly oaked and elegant style, then try ones from Yarra Valley like Hoddles Creek, Coldstream Hills, Punt Road, De Bortoli and Toolangi.

Others from Yarra Valley like Giant Steps, Oakridge and Tarrawarra tend to be a richer burgundy style that you are not after I think.

Similarly with Margaret River where Cape Mentelle, Voyager Estate, etc might be a tighter or leaner style and others like Leeuwin Estate, Pierro, Cullen and Vasse Felix Heytesbury are richer/oakier and more robust.

If you want unoaked chardonnay, then get petit chablis. You only need to spend $20 to $40.

But a lot of mid-priced Australian chardonnay these days is made in a leaner chablis style using earlier picked fruit and winding back the use of oak (using a mix of tank juice and/or older barrels) - whereas a decade ago they tended to be more of the over-oaked, buttery/malo style.

Stick to the cool-climate areas for chardonnay maybe. The Seppelt Jaluka is a good example of the contemporary chablis style if that is what you want.

I wouldn't call the Heytesbury a richer Margaret River chardonnay. I find it quite lean. Good advice to stick to cool climate areas though.

cheers

Carl

[Tucker Wine Studios]

Just had last week the Voyager Estate Chardonnay 2007 and the Vasse Felix Heytesbury Chardonnay 2006.
From my point of view they are both just in the right spot in terms of body. Neither lean nor fat. Maybe the Heytesbury leaning a bit more towards the more muscular side of the spectrum (despite 2006 being a 'cold' year for MR). But maybe it's also the maturation stage - the Heytesbury showing a mouth-watering golden colour, the Voyager a tad lighter (both bottles bought at CD and stored in wine fridge).
Well, I think both were sensational and I wish I would have more of them. But then there are so many more Chardonnays to try. For me Margaret River Chardonnays are still my favorites (but I need to explore a bit more whats grown in Victoria).
PS: I now also remember that Cullen Kevin John Chardonnay (08 or 09?) I had a couple of months ago at a tasting - sensational, too, but it hits your wallet hard...

Cheers,
Mario

[Sean]

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[Michael R]

Would agree with Sean, the heytsbury is not a wine for new chardy drinkers, i think the wild ferment puts barriers up that even seasoned drinkers might struggle with, match that with the high acid levels and it's what I'd call a confronting style. I opened the recent release about 2 months ago, and some people couldn't finish their glass, I liked it but the acid was heavy and while I'm sure it's been drunk too young, it's not an everyman label....Pierro I'd put in a similar class, and one I personally struggle with compared to others. However I've scant experience with aged Pierro.

On the other hand, spend an extra $30, and buy a Giaconda. It's the only super premium priced aus wine that is easily worth the significant price IMO. The penfolds bin A is total quality and not far off, but it's the equivalent of hay list running against black caviar.

[WoZ]

.. dan I have a different take on this as I would challenge your basic premise about you having a Secret Shame .. ashamed of what ?? .. haven't you heard about the ABC of wine ? .. ABC = Another Bloody Chardonnay !!! .. you don't have to drink chardonnay to be a true wine lover .. I have been happily drinking Hunter Semillon, Clare Reisling and Fordwich Verdelho for decades without feeling any shame whatsoever .. I grew tired of the over-oaked buttery presentations called chardonnay and just stopped drinking them .. BUT I too have a secret as in recent years I have slowly had to admit to having a growing itch to drink WA chardonnays, think Pierro, Lenton Bray, Moss Wood, Leeuwin, .. but it is an expensive habit to buy the best ..

.. Chablis ?? .. a totally different poisson .. any semblance of similarity is accidental although you will hear some Aussie chardonnays likened to a chablis .. I'm never sure why as we are worlds apart and the French make chablis so beautifully just as we make great chardonnays .. to each their own ..

.. and dan if you liked Tyrrell's Vat 47 then go for it .. after all it is one of Australia's most awarded chardonnays with consistent show results over several decades now .. so there must be some wine judges out there who agree with you .. how clever of them .. .. remember >> "According to wine experts Hugh Johnson and Jancis Robinson, Tyrrell's Vat 47 Hunter Valley Chardonnay was the wine that "launched a million bottles." ..

WoZ feeling malo