Recently i have opened a few reds (under cork) that have had real stinky H2S issues. some have blown off but others must have become mercaptan bound and not blowing off at all even over 24 hours.
What do you guys & girls do when you get a wine like this? Do you follow it up the same way you would for a corked wine eg. try and get a replacement or just wear it?
Brett
H2S Faults
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Brett Stevens
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:19 pm
- Location: Busselton, Western Australia
If the wines got it, it's got it. No point looking for replacement. If the characters are too strong for your taste then you're out of luck I'm afraid.
Vigorous decanting can blow it off faster, or the old copper coin trick.
The winery may replace with another wine from their range if they think it's in their long-term interests to keep you on side.
cheers, brad
Vigorous decanting can blow it off faster, or the old copper coin trick.
The winery may replace with another wine from their range if they think it's in their long-term interests to keep you on side.
cheers, brad
And gladys save a place for me
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
Brett,
If the stink blows off then the wine is drinkable. If it does not blow off then its bad. If a bottle is defective then its defective.
A few years ago, I had one wine that was stinky. After I complained when the replacment bottle was also had the same problem, they tested some of their stock and
knew they had a problem and pulled it all back off the retailers shelves.
In other cases, I have only ever had one winery where they gave me a bad time with "stinky bottle problems." All the rest have replaced the wine without fuss.
If the stink blows off then the wine is drinkable. If it does not blow off then its bad. If a bottle is defective then its defective.
A few years ago, I had one wine that was stinky. After I complained when the replacment bottle was also had the same problem, they tested some of their stock and
knew they had a problem and pulled it all back off the retailers shelves.
In other cases, I have only ever had one winery where they gave me a bad time with "stinky bottle problems." All the rest have replaced the wine without fuss.
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Brett Stevens
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:19 pm
- Location: Busselton, Western Australia
Brett Stevens wrote:Interesting, I have had one winery replace one last year from MR very quick to replace. realised a number of them had a problem.
Seeing as this is a winemaking fault should this be replaced?
Brett
If one bottle has H2S then all the bottles should.
Using the word fault is always difficult with H2S, brett, mercaptans etc as it depends on the degree of impact and your tolerance to it.
If you order a medium rare steak and it comes out slightly rarer than you would prefer would you expect a replacement? Is it faulty? Badly made?
Cork taint is usually easier to define, and its impact on wine is clearly regarded as detrimental. Whilst not a fault of the wine, it impacts your enjoyment and masks what otherwise would be a diiferent experience (ie what the winemaker intended you to see).
A wine with a little H2S may be quite normal and acceptable to the winemaker and their customers. If you don't enjoy the level from a particular wine then you would probably need to choose something else.
In a former life one of our wines won some serious medals and accolades whilst displaying a clearly reductive character, which for most people enhanced their experience. Faulty? Not while it dripped with gold medals mate!
Hope this helps, cheers, brad
And gladys save a place for me
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
brad wrote:In a former life one of our wines won some serious medals and accolades whilst displaying a clearly reductive character, which for most people enhanced their experience. Faulty? Not while it dripped with gold medals mate!
Brad,
I agree this is a difficult issue. The problem with reductive characters is that they can get worse with bottle age. So the wine that won a load of medals may have been enjoyable to many people when young, but after it has been cellared for awhile may become rank. Also, reductive characters can and do vary from bottle to bottle.
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Glen G
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Brett Stevens
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:19 pm
- Location: Busselton, Western Australia
I agree with Torb, if H2S is bottled into wine, then with time in reductive conditions this will become Mercaptans which will bind into the wine. However once exposed to oxygen the reaction can go back the other way.
From memory the threshold to Mercaptan is a lot higher than H2S?
Any way i will ring the winery today and let you know what happens.
From memory the threshold to Mercaptan is a lot higher than H2S?
Any way i will ring the winery today and let you know what happens.
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Michael
Glen G wrote:Brad
I couldn't disagree more strongly. Any form or degree of H2S/mercaptan is a fault.
I would be interested to know at what show your wine received these medals, and what year this was in, even the wines name?
The judges should be shot!
Cheers
Glen
Glen,
so Rayas & Beaucastel 1989's are faulty wines?
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Peter
H2S wines
I have most often encountered this at special wine tasting events. Often it will blow off with a bit of time as most bottles are opened just prior to serving and will settle quickly.
Virtually all the wines I have drunk from my cellar do not show excessive sulphur taint.
Lets face it high sulphur / mercaptan content smells like sewrage.
I generally avoid wines that smell overtly sulphurous as it smells like sh*t even if does not always taste like it.
Virtually all the wines I have drunk from my cellar do not show excessive sulphur taint.
Lets face it high sulphur / mercaptan content smells like sewrage.
I generally avoid wines that smell overtly sulphurous as it smells like sh*t even if does not always taste like it.
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Glen G
TORB wrote:brad wrote:In a former life one of our wines won some serious medals and accolades whilst displaying a clearly reductive character, which for most people enhanced their experience. Faulty? Not while it dripped with gold medals mate!
Brad,
I agree this is a difficult issue. The problem with reductive characters is that they can get worse with bottle age. So the wine that won a load of medals may have been enjoyable to many people when young, but after it has been cellared for awhile may become rank. Also, reductive characters can and do vary from bottle to bottle.
The wine still looks reductive and still looks great!
And gladys save a place for me
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
Glen G wrote:Brad
I couldn't disagree more strongly. Any form or degree of H2S/mercaptan is a fault.
I would be interested to know at what show your wine received these medals, and what year this was in, even the wines name?
The judges should be shot!
Cheers
Glen
Glen, even if I were to bend and agree that any form or degree of anything in the wine could be considered a fault does it mean they must all be replaced? Be a lot of faulty replacements going out for faulty wines purchased.
Anybody with a wine-fault-kit business would be laughing too! And gladys save a place for me
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
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Glen G
Hi Brad
I remember judging for the Unley home winemaking club a couple of years ago, which generally consisted of 60+ year old Italian and Greek gentleman, and their home ferments of up to 20 litres.
Honestly none of the wines would have been over a 13/20 due to oxidation, acetification, brett, H2S, and several other faults which I have never seen before and will probably/hopefully never see again. However these dear old men absolutely loved their wines and it became quickly apparent that the judging needed to be somewhat 'modified' because of the circumstances (and for fear of being lynched).
In other words, these guys and many others just like them all through Europe have grown up with brett etc in their homemade wines and to remove these 'faults' would be to remove the character from the wine that they have grown so fond of.
It is my understanding that the Australian show judging system does see H2S and mercaptan in any degree as faults, and this may just be why Australian wines have dominated export markets in the last few years.
Sure, one mans fault may be another mans feast, but there generally has to be an acceptable standard that is commonly acknowledged otherwise most things, including wine, would never be at the stage of evolutionary development that it is in this modern day.
"Is the majority always right? - not according to the minority!"
Cheers
Glen
I remember judging for the Unley home winemaking club a couple of years ago, which generally consisted of 60+ year old Italian and Greek gentleman, and their home ferments of up to 20 litres.
Honestly none of the wines would have been over a 13/20 due to oxidation, acetification, brett, H2S, and several other faults which I have never seen before and will probably/hopefully never see again. However these dear old men absolutely loved their wines and it became quickly apparent that the judging needed to be somewhat 'modified' because of the circumstances (and for fear of being lynched).
In other words, these guys and many others just like them all through Europe have grown up with brett etc in their homemade wines and to remove these 'faults' would be to remove the character from the wine that they have grown so fond of.
It is my understanding that the Australian show judging system does see H2S and mercaptan in any degree as faults, and this may just be why Australian wines have dominated export markets in the last few years.
Sure, one mans fault may be another mans feast, but there generally has to be an acceptable standard that is commonly acknowledged otherwise most things, including wine, would never be at the stage of evolutionary development that it is in this modern day.
"Is the majority always right? - not according to the minority!"
Cheers
Glen
Glen G wrote:Hi Brad
Sure, one mans fault may be another mans feast, but there generally has to be an acceptable standard that is commonly acknowledged otherwise most things, including wine, would never be at the stage of evolutionary development that it is in this modern day.
Cheers
Glen
Well that does it! If you're gonna keep arguin' wid me I'm gonna get off this faulty computer with its faulty operating system, get in my faulty motor vehicle and drive up to the beach cafe with its faulty, pot-holed driveway, drink a faulty coffee (too hot, too cold, too weak, too strong, too bitter) and eat a blueberry and chocolate muffin - which is usually not faulty. Except for the amount of sugar in it. And gladys save a place for me
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
On your grapevine
Till i get my own tv show
Can you get Blueberry chocolate muffins (hope I haven't pointed out a faultbrad wrote:Glen G wrote:Hi Brad
Sure, one mans fault may be another mans feast, but there generally has to be an acceptable standard that is commonly acknowledged otherwise most things, including wine, would never be at the stage of evolutionary development that it is in this modern day.
Cheers
Glen
)?simm.
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
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Guest
brad wrote:[I'm gonna get off this faulty computer with its faulty operating system,
Thank you Billy Gates!
get in my faulty motor vehicle
Better be careful of the coppers, they may defect you, or even your car!
and drive up to the beach cafe with its faulty, pot-holed driveway,
Rubbish! According to the council, that is part of the Councils local road enhancement experience program.
drink a faulty coffee (too hot, too cold, too weak, too strong, too bitter)
Someone has to keep the lawyers busy and in work.
and eat a blueberry and chocolate muffin - which is usually not faulty. Except for the amount of sugar in it.
Amen to that! And have a bottle of Frog Bubbles to wash it down.
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Brett Stevens
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:19 pm
- Location: Busselton, Western Australia
Well all it seems that Brad is right.
I have not contacted the winery in question.
instead after Brad's comments i spoke to a couple of my lectureres (also local winemakers) and they advised me caveat emptor. the theory is right that the wine was sold with H2S in it and that it is not a random fault like TCA.
Although possibly was the most evil of sulphides. Disulphides that were bound up in the reductive production environment and then as wine oxidised with age it has become H2S.
H2S actually has the lowest tolerance level of all the sulphide problems including mercaptans and Disulphides.
Therefore it may not be noticeable at bottling due to low amounts and hi tolerance, however as wine oxidises with age then the sulphides actually move back towards H2S and at the same and lower levels become a lot more noticeable.
Anyhow i lose and i know better next time when i am looking at these wines.
Brett
I have not contacted the winery in question.
instead after Brad's comments i spoke to a couple of my lectureres (also local winemakers) and they advised me caveat emptor. the theory is right that the wine was sold with H2S in it and that it is not a random fault like TCA.
Although possibly was the most evil of sulphides. Disulphides that were bound up in the reductive production environment and then as wine oxidised with age it has become H2S.
H2S actually has the lowest tolerance level of all the sulphide problems including mercaptans and Disulphides.
Therefore it may not be noticeable at bottling due to low amounts and hi tolerance, however as wine oxidises with age then the sulphides actually move back towards H2S and at the same and lower levels become a lot more noticeable.
Anyhow i lose and i know better next time when i am looking at these wines.
Brett